You could play Void Snare to deal with whatever permanent your opponent resolves while your shields are down. Not a fan of the card myself, though.

If Obelisk is so good.. cutting it seems dumb IMO. Just play more unconditional removal like Angelic Edict so you can nuke any resolved bombs.. or you can wait until you're at 8 mana to drop it so that you can hold up a counterspell/Obelisk activation the turn you cast it.

I do not think this deck is optimal yet, but the pieces are coming together. Compared to the previous games in this series, the metagame seems to be wide open. Half of the decks I see are new players running subobtimal decks.



I think the most important principle I have with this deck is to move towards instants as much as possible. At 5 mana, Angelic Edict costs so much that it is likely to tap you out, and certainly will not leave enough mana open for you to use the four copies of Traumatic Visions.

Nullify has been an all-star for me, in practice it seems that 75% of non-creature spells revolve around creatures in some way, whether they are buffing them or removing them. I do not have any creatures to protect, and my opponent often will not have any creatures on the board to buff.

Reprisal has also performed very well in this meta. I anticipated many more players would play goblin decks, but they are not common on steam. Plus, with all the other removal options available - 10 counterspells, 8 burn spells and the two cleansings - it has yet to be a dead card for me. Reprisal and burn spells cover each other's weaknesses remarkably well.

Banefire works great as a finisher but I added the Obelisks to fill that role. As early removal, they were pretty shabby. Tapping out is sin.

I like my burn suite of Shock and Resounding Thunder a lot, but run only 3 copies of each. I run few enough burn spells that I am almost never forced to direct multiple burn spells at a single target. Ultimately, Obelisk of Alara is a replacement for the burn spells. I simply have enough burn to slow down early rushes. Resounding Thunder is an alternative win condition against control decks - although you would have to either resolve a shock or shuffle your deck via Kozilek. This is much slower than Banefire, but I think this deck is very favored vs. control anyway due to most of these decks running tons of creature removal.

My card choices give me an extremely low curve - 23 cards cost 3 or less, compared to only 13 that cost 4 or more. Since Traumatic Visions can be landcycled the curve looks more like 27 vs 10.

Compared to Hakeem's and 2bestest's builds I am like 8-10 cards off of each. Most of that has come from my removal choices, the other has come from using Darksteel Ingot. This card is great for generating black and green mana for the Obelisk and Resounding Thunder, but the ramping is often extremely relevant. Going from 3 mana directly to 5 mana enables Visions sooner. The combination of cheap removal and 28 total mana sources means it is easier to aggressively cast draw spells.

It takes me a lot of testing before I am truly confident with a deck, but right now I feel pretty comfortable with this list.

I think running a one-one split of Obelisk/Banefire could be something to think about. I'm glad you're on the 4x Visions plan, it's actually a great card in 3+ color control in this metagame. And I also think that you should at least think about moving to 4x Resounding Thunder, it's an amazing spell for a control deck and if you do add the Banefire then EoT cycle into Banefire beats a lot of decks. You could cut a Reprisal for the fourth Thunder IMO because once you get to eight mana, Thunder will kill almost everything that Reprisal does and in the early game Thunder is a much better draw. I'm not a huge fan of Reprisal, actually, it's good when it's good but it's bad when it's bad. One is enough, I think, but I'd honestly rather have a singleton Angelic Edict in that slot to deal with opposing Kozileks while giving you an extra out to resolved enchantments.

My theory-based suggestions are:

-2 Reprisal
-1 Obelisk of Alara

+1 Banefire
+1 Resounding Thunder
+1 Angelic Edict

Overall, I really like the list. Especially because there's no BSA.

I see what he's saying though about Reprisal + Shock/Thunder/Anger.. they cover each other's weaknesses.

The general weakness of these decks generally is against decks that jam a lot of bombs.. so I'm not down with skimping on bomb removal.

I do agree with -1 Obelisk, +1 Banefire though. The cycled Thunder/Banefire combo is a legit wincon.

I agree that an Angelic Edict should be there for enchantments and creatures that must be exiled like Kozilek, Phytotitan etc.

Obelisk and Banefire do kind of compete for a slot, but for me Obelisk wins hands down. I just had a game vs. a Spider Spawning deck where my opponent was beating on me for a few turns with 2 Bloodghast. I was able to stall with Obelisk lifegain for multiple turns until I drew Anger of the Gods. I looted for another 5-10 turns in order to accumulate counterspells for Spawning and Thunder for the win. Finally, I had 3 Resounding Thunder in hand and I was able to kill him with two resounding thunder cyclings, one Thunder hard cast, and two obelisk activations.

Banefire was amazing in Dodge & Burn, but that deck had better/ more burn to complement it and a much higher draw power compared to this one (22ish plus around 5 from Overwhelming Intellect vs 16, not including Kozi). Banefire's speed fit that deck very well. This deck is slow and I am happy to plod along activating Obelisk of Alara for 3 a turn when I want to win. I will give Banefire the advantage in a creatureless control mirror match, but against any other deck my plan is just to get an obelisk to stick.

I would add a Resounding Thunder but I can't find the cut.

As for Angelic Edict, I will admit that the exile is relevant. Basically Bloodghast and Vengevine, but I see these cards a lot. But adding a singleton copy only increases my exile capability by 1 card since Anger of the Gods kills both of these annoying cards. In order for Edict to beat a counterspell against Kozilek, your opponent has to draw him repeatedly, worst case scenario they have played all their lands, about a 1/35 or 3% chance.

Edit - clarified my figures on draw power
I can think of tons of exile cards that are great. Path to Exile, Burn Away, Magma Spray, Pillar of Flame etc. But the issue isn't whether exile is good, it is whether it is worth it at sorcery speed for 5 mana. I don't think it is, especially when 5 mana Traumatic Visions is a backbone of my counterspell suite. I would actually consider Suffer the Past over Edict or Banefire because it has the flexibility to do both - exile or go to the face, at instant speed, and gain life.

One cut I have been toying with is Kozilek, the Butcher of Truth. Out of 30 games played, self mill has been an issue in 0. But the "draw 4" effect has been relevant in a number of close matches, and I cannot find anything with a similarly high impact to replace him with.

I want to thank beast and Hakeem for their feedback and for reading my prolix posts. I will continue testing.

I'm putting this here for later discussion. I just brewed it, went 2-0 vs an artifact deck that dropped a TURN 3 GALVANIC JUGGERNAUGHT which was brutal to deal with, and some other 66 card 5-color good stuffery. I think it has potential.

Control into Blowout

White
3x Wall of Omens
1x Baneslayer Angel
2x Angelic Edict
2x Planar Cleansing

Blue
4x Think Twice
2x Negate
4x Nullify
3x Dissolve
4x Inspiration
2x Counterlash

Red
3x Shock
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Stormbreath Dragon
1x Utvara Hellkite

Colorless
1x Kozilek
1x Darksteel Colossus

Land
3x Plains
6x Island
3x Mountain
4x Azorious Gate
4x Izzet Gate
4x Boros Gate

I didn't use the editor bc I don't know if the new cards are in it yet. It's pretty simple.. just play Jeskai control until you can blow them out with Counterlash and a megabomb. Baneslayer and Stormbreath are there bc they can win the game on their own if not answered.. and they annoy the F out of your opponent. Wall of Omens helps with agro along with Shock.. giving you time to get out an Anger or Cleansing.

Try it.. its fun. Counterlashing a big boy out is often going to be an auto concede.

I've moved a misplaced post and a reply to it from here to its proper place in the Azorius thread, and did some continuity cleanup.

I have not lost with your deck yet mega. Some aggro games got close, but they always over reach into counterlash. I have been trying to make a good Counterlash deck for a while now and this deck made it happen! I suppose the Darksteel helped with the semi non-removable threat. I also found out the hard way that Stormbreath isn't immune to Planar Cleansing.

Yay! Glad you like it! I'm doing family stuff tonight but I can't wait to get home and tinker with it.

Lol about blowing up your own dragon.. I had to test it myself before I knew too

Any thoughts about the cards? Underperformers? I'd like to replace Edict with Reprisal.. but I need to hit what I need to hit, even if its 5 mana to do it. Exile is better than death too.. but.. letting down counter shields for it sucks.

I am not a huge fan of negate, so maybe I would try to throw in Traumatic Visions instead. It would help fix the mana issues without sacrificing that much. The only reason I can think to keep them is to counter an answer to counterlash, but most of the time they are tapping out before you throw it out there. I have been playing the deck very conservative though, and as a result I am sure my Stormbreath and BSA don't hit the field as early as they should.

I like Edict over Reprisal even though you might tap out for it.

Negate is there to protect the megabombs and stop crap like Triplicate Spirits. It's certainly the least useful counter in the deck.. but it has been relevant. I hardcast Darksteel Colossus.. the opponent tried to Reprisal it but I guess he didn't know it was indestructible lol.. so he put 2 dead weight on it and cast Charmbreaker Devils. I pass the turn, Charmbreaker gives him back Reprisal. He plays a bomb, I counterlash it dropping Kozilek who gives me a negate with one of the 4 cards he brings. Opponent drops an insta-reprisal, which I was glad to have negate for. He concedes.

Traumatic Visions is certainly on the short list of cards to go in though.

Hey guys just posting a jeskai token deck that I am gonna try out. I will let you guys know if it failed miserably later haha.


Edit: Gonna cut 3 x dissolve for triplicate spirits i cant believe i forgot that card. Will keep you posted.

Beast - it is fun to lash out a fatty. This list looks like a pretty conventional control shell with counterlash and an extra dose of megafat.

Traumatic Visions could add some nice mana fixing. I notice you have a ton of counterspells but only 3 shock for early removal. I would be very scared if I had a hand that did not have UU to get nullify online right away. Maybe try Resounding Thunder plus some trilands to extend your reach in the later game.

Stormbreath is aggressive, but I am not sure if aggression is what a control deck with 5 creatures needs. I would replace with either inferno titan or resolute archangel.

I am trying to build a counterlash deck too - right now it is on the Grixis thread. I would appreciate your comment.

I actually cut all 3 shocks recently in favor of 3 Traumatic Visions and here's why: Against aggro.. shock takes care of one weenie.. which, in the grand scheme of the match.. doesn't matter one bit. It's sweeper or bust. Against tokens or white weenies.. shock isn't going to save me. Will it help a little.. sure.. but the only thing that actually solves the problem is a sweeper. I'm trying to always mulligan a sweeper into my hand in case of the aggro matchup. Wall of Omens helps too. Visions has been good. Utvara won me a match earlier with 16 dragons on the field after the final declared attack. I hardcasted it.. since I never saw Counterlash or the other two megabombs.

I'll check out your Grixis deck now.

What you are saying is often correct vs the most aggressive decks, but still when you are running a 3 color deck you cannot count on having nullify mana open on turn 2.

Nor is anger necessarily perfectly reliable against certain deck types - pridemate can grow out of control quickly, but is easily shocked on the turn it is dropped.

I would rather cut one (or both) of the edicts in order to retain two shocks. You have a beast of a countermagic suite with 4 nullify, 3 dissolve, 3 traumatic and 2 counterlash. Nullify makes it possible to never tap out, since you have a total of 7 counterspells under 3 mana. A fistful of counterspells like that makes an instant like shock much better and a sorcery like edict worse.

Anyway that is my 2 cents.

I've was playing around last night trying to get a deck that can sneak in the big boys and I think Mega's way is the safest, the token route with Jailra is to easy to counter.

So something like this maybe? Tbh i'm finding it very difficult landwise, it is just not consistent enough.

Darkshock - I haven't playtested the list, but I will say something about lands.

Traumatic visions certainly helps with color fixing, but you are at only 3 copies. Darksteel Ingot helps ramp you up. I find it invaluable to get traumatic visions online ASAP, and it helps fix your mana to boot.

Right now your manabase provides 13 W, 11 U and only 7 R. Cleansing is your most color-intensive spell with 3 W, but you shouldn't twist your manabase too much for that one spell. Your mana fixer is also in U. Also your curve is super heavy, you should go up to 25 or 26 lands.

All of this might make things easier. Lands are the best cards in the game.

HenWen is fairly on the nose with increase your land count to 25/26 lands. Blue and Red need to be your early colors in a permission style deck (As HenWen said, is your fix option and you need immediately for any counter and for your shocks and for your anger) You need to try and hit a land drop pretty much every turn which is why you need to increase your mana count. Since you are going to have to favor Blue/Red for early turns, I would suggest some sort of chump blocker in that color (instead of Wall of Omens which should be more a 'splash' type color). You may not even need a Cleansing option if you get your colors/permissions working right, especially since it's intensive at . If you get it down right, there hopefully won't be too many options on the board to deal with and single target removal options should be sufficient in a lot of cases.

elk

Also one other card that does interact well with Counterlash is Archaeomancer. Getting a 1/2 body isn't exciting, but she can put counterlash back in your hand so it is ready when you do draw a bomb. If I had to post a current Jeskai control decklist I would include Archaeomancer somewhere in it, a 1/2 body is actually significant since it can block the 1/1 tokens that bypass my removal spells.