I bounce the second one and make him discard it? Dinrova Horror? The Gorger/Horror lock is one of the deck's endgames, I've played it in another deck and it is brutal. Then there's Sheoldred.

Yeah.. that's legit.. but that's a lot of mana each turn.. and the opponent could get there before you can setup if they're Cultivating. Time will tell. Keep us posted!

What about:

-4 Rager
-1 Gatekeeper

+3 Strix
+1 Rune Scarred
+1 Monomania (in case the oppo has a lot of card draw).

This is a deck I've been working on for a bit. Seems to do fairly well. Beetle has been pretty legit. Takes care of young pyro and can generally 2 for 1 against aggro. Let me know what you guys think.

I'm also going to have to take that discard deck out for a spin. Looks fun.

I've been testing the Sultai discard deck and here's where I am currently:



Dead Weight was added because this deck gets really annoyed by those early game utility creatures. The card is almost as good as Shock in this format, so it's no surprise that we're playing it here.

The rest of the deck is pretty straight-forward, you have a ton of EtB creatures and the Species Gorger to let you bounce them up and recast them. If you don't disrupt their hand early and beat them to death with your little dudes, you have the Gorger/Horror lock as your endgame. Or you could just stick a Sheoldred. Either plan works. The deck draws a lot of cards, so it is very consistent from my testing so far.

I've gone with Genesis Hydra over Rune-Scarred Demon because it tutors something directly into play, but I may change my mind here. I also like how it's scalable so you can cast it earlier if you just need the blocker, and the deck has a fair number of hits on X=3.

Thoughts?

I guess Undying Evil hit the cutting room floor? I really liked that card's synergy with the EtB (more to the point, Brain Maggot and Liliana's Specter)

How are you finding it with the 12 tap lands?

elk

The 12 taplands aren't bad because this deck isn't trying to curve out. It has a lot of blockers to stall aggro and lifegain from Saruli Gatekeepers to recoup some of the loss from playing a turn behind.

Undying Evil didn't really go away, it just became a 6/6 Frog Beast that taxes your mana every turn. Being able to recast these creatures every turn while gumming up the ground is a lot better than Undying Evil, I think.

I've been working on my own discard deck and the one thing that is painfully apparent is that blue/black creatures are terrible at blocking. I've been running Gomazoas because they're pretty much the best early blocker in the game in Dimir colors.. but I really like the addition of Saruli Gatekeepers here.. even if they can't block air.

Looking at your build makes me wonder if you can out right cut the Golgari Guildgates and out right lose the islands for Seaside Citadel, Arcane Sanctum (running it mainly as golgari). is an auxiliary color at best in your deck and generally you don't need it early either, no need to run islands at all imo.

I'd worry that there wouldn't be enough gates in the deck to reliably trigger Saruli Gatekeepers. But otherwise, I totally see where you're coming from.

Gatekeepers is the reason to play twelve Gates.

Interesting discard build. Gonna give it a run soon.

Another deck I plan on messing with once I get a chance to get on the game. Will post back once I have done some testing.

I'll be substituting Elixir of Immortality for Laboratory Maniac in my Infinite Turns build, as it's almost a straight upgrade.

My take on the Selfmill archetype.

I wanted to avoid running mill cards like Tome Scour and Chill of Foreboding.
Instead I'm relying on Hedron Crab, Satyr Wayfinder and Necromancer's Assistant.
Species Gorger can be used to recur them for more reliable selfmill.

The deck is also maximizing the number of creatures for Spider Spawning and Nemesis of Mortals.

The deck has 3 main winconditions:

Nemesis of Mortals
I don't expect this to kill the opponent. It's more a distraction that they have to deal with that buys us some time.
Haven't cast it for more than two mana yet.

Spider Spawning
This is the real wincondition. This is a great home for this card and it shores up our weakness to fliers.

Laboratory Maniac
This card is in the deck for stylepoints and will often be unneeded. It can be good against deck with a lot of sweepers or counterspells that stop the Spider plan.
This is easier to sneak under a counterspell and in combination with Think Twice can win a game on the spot.
If they try to bounce him in response to Think Twice you can flashback a second Think Twice, so use those sparingly near the lategame.

There's some more card draw with Graveborn Muse, Think Twice and Elvish Visionary, which works well with the Gorger too.

Brain Maggot provides some disruption, which the deck lacks otherwise. Species Gorger allows you to switch cards if they draw something better.

Finally I've decided to include Gravediggerin the "flex slot". Other cards I considered were:

Archaeomancer is sweet if you can return a Spider Spawning for an extra shot, but the double blue in the casting cost was a little prohibitive.
Reclamation Sage is awesome with Species Gorger, but we are going pretty all in on our plan, so I don't know if this deck wants to spend many slots on disruption.
Shadowborn Demon would be a much needed removal spell and threat at the same time, the deck already has a decent amount of 5-drops however.
Gravedigger allows us to get back key cards like Hedron Crab, Laboratory Maniac or Species Gorger (which combos very nicely with it too).

The deck isn't running any expensive spells since we really want to flash back a Spider Spawning on T7 and T8 anyways, and not many cards will be better than making 10-15 spiders.

Gravedigger as a singleton? And not Sheoldred?

I really don't like lab maniac because its a terrible gamble for a win con. Any opponent with removal that sees you are going for the self mill win will just kill that card on the last turn and you loose the game instead of win. Unless you have a way to protect him he should not be used.

You can always use think twice to win in response to removal.

Sheoldred only gives value if she survives though and the edict isn't great if we don't have any other removal.

I also want to avoid expensive cards as stated.

I haven't seen any builds using Peel from Reality in this thread yet. It has some pretty cool interactions.

Liliana's Specter + Peel = Recoil.
Archaeomancer + Peel = reusable, 6 mana unsummon.

However I decided not to use Archaeomancer - and instead focus on a toolbox approach.

There may be similar lists earlier in the thread, but on this page Hakeem's list is the most similar. I stole the top end of my curve from him.



Not included in planner: 4 Peel from Reality

So my pile has a lot in common with Hakeem's pile. I won't say I have tested this extensively as some of this is based on theory. But here are a few key card differences:
4 Elvish Visionary > 4 Satyr Wayfinder. The curve on this deck is deceptively low. If you are playing creatures multiple times then you will need tons of land. The wayfinder also helps with mana fixing. Plus, the self mill has some very real interations that help to fill holes in this deck. Among other things, it makes it easier for Shadowborn Demon to meet his 6 creature threshold and gives Sheoldred more to resurrect.
4 Dead weight > 3 dead weight, 2 dead reckoning, 1 blister beetle. The beetle is basically just for testing right now. Dead weight is good early removal, and Dinrova / Peel + Specter discard is good removal later on. Dead reckoning should help add a bit more removal in between, and allow you to retrieve a creature of your choice.
I am also testing just 3 species gorger. Not a card I want multiples of, I can retrieve it from my GY if it is killed, and it is very bad if your opponent successfully board wipes.

Thats it for now. I am going to test this and see if I can squeeze in a bit more bounce, and what to cut if I do. This is one of the few decks where I think the sorcery speed of Void Snare would be ok.