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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:05 pm 
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Dr_Demento wrote:
[url=http://forum.nogoblinsallowed.com/viewtopic.php?p=265772#p265772]Rush_Clasic[/url wrote:


Ajani is deck 18. Did you mean 18? Because that's a pretty simple 3-3.




Yeah,that one.
serenechaos hitting himself for 6 each time she wants to helix until he or she ultimates, and feeder stopping the first three life against the -3 vs. a creature make it difficult to calculate for me.

Helix is only a -2, and Feeder only stops the first because Ajani targets the feeder. Basically, Ajani being able to not actually lose life post ult means it can barely edge you out. Although Mountain was a terrible, terrible choice for this deck.

I can see it now, thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:53 pm 
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So many effing Gargadons.

Spoiler


Outta time, will come back at this later. v5 has some scenarios worth considering re: when to use spirit as a blocker or as an attacker, and I see v6 has the same decision point I need to investigate.


Continuing...
Spoiler


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:12 pm 
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Valkir, I have to wait for you to play Shadow to play Affliction, so you can just not play the swamp and we 2-2.

:duel:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:11 pm 
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Deck 1 vs Phantasm

Doesn't attack..... loses. Both going first and going second. I don't see a reason they wouldn't attack every turn with everything, just because of how unlife works and how phantasm wins in 3 attacks if left unchallenged.

Going second against a phantasm and attacking every turn, but does not reveal goblin in hand:

Takes 5 damage turn 1 -> Phantasm deck will block 1 token and take 5 total including the phantasm's trigger 15 v 15

Takes 5 damage turn 2 -> Phantasm deck will block 1 token and take 4 total including the phantasm's trigger 10 v 11

Takes 4 damage turn 3 -> Phantasm deck will block 1 token and take 3 total including the phantasm's trigger. 6 v 8

Takes 3 damage turn 4 -> Phantasm deck takes 2. Has 1 token left at this point to attack with. 3 v 6

It's at this point where I think it gets interesting. If we had an extra goblin token on the battlefield, the results would be exactly the same here, except the phantasm deck would be at 2 and the unlife deck would be at 0. Thus, I don't see the point of not using chancellor here. And assuming they attack every turn with every token, the phantasm deck cannot win via just blocking. Maze of Ith won't change anything.

Let's assume the Phantasm deck decides to attack..... well good news. 2 attacks puts the opponent at 0 life and 3 turns till dead. But you lose in 2 turns as phantasm deck. Again, maze no matter..

Basically, the unlife deck 6-0's the phantasm decks unless I missed something.




The next interesting matchup people have not done....... wasteland deck vs ith deck. It's a 3-3 wash where whoever goes first wins.



Vs War Riders: Dismember can't kill phantasm by itself.

Going second, I don't take damage on my first turn. I drop phantasm. He now has 6 creatures, and goes down to 14 on his second turn. I now have a 1/1 and a 4/6. He can attack with all 6 to force through some damage, but then he loses war-riders and I just win. If he doesn't attack.... I win.

Going first, my clock is even faster, and dismember can't kill phantasm, so I still win. I 6-0 this.


Vs Lilystorm

Let's say I go second. She gives me 4 power worth of creatures and I take 4 damage first turn. Then I attack for 4. Then she gets 5 creatures and I have a phantasm. At this point, she is at 10 life on her turn.

16 me vs 10 her

I have a 1/1, a 3/3, and an unblockable 4/6. She has 6 permanants and I don't have to block any of them. If she sacs a token to the life gain land, she'll have 6 permanants and 11 life. I won't block and I WILL win if she attacks with all, so she doesn't attack. And she sacs a token to reduce my clock. She also gives me a token with orchard?

At this point, I will blow her life gain land up with wasteland.

I take 6? damage putting me at 10 this turn vs her 11. I attack for 4 putting lily at 7. She is going to take 5 putting her at 2. She can't do 10 damage to me before her next turn. If she attacks all, I can block 3 and won't take enough upkeep damage. If she doesn't and gives me another 1/1, I'll have 3 + 3 + 1 damage and still live. She loses.

I think? that's the optimal play on both sides, and going first then I obviously win faster, so I think Lilystorm just loses to phantasm decks 0-6.



9 is a mirror for me. It's an attacking mirror where we 3-3.


Sand Crab 0-6's me, because Avabruck can't get past phantasm as a blocker.




vs serenchaos,

Me going first.

He takes 5, drops ajani, attacks for 4 + 1 in my upkeep. I attack for 4. He then takes another 5 putting him at 6. He now has to keep tapping my phantasm to live and his clock is slower, so I win.

Him going first, drops ajani.

I drop phantasm.

He loses 6. Again, a repeat. I 6-0 him I think.


vs 21

I put a 6 because Scarlet did, and I don't see why I wouldn't be able to match that looking at his deck.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:29 pm 
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POSValkir wrote:
Also...I firggin love Troll’s deck…


Thanks, I tried to do something different :P


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:50 pm 
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this is what I get for not actually exploring the format. damn you gargletron.

:duel:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:01 am 
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I didn't explore the format more than you didn't explore the format.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:58 am 
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isn't 14vs10 a 3-3? if I'm on the play I will suspend Gargadon, and if you play Phantasm and kill my land (which seems necessary) I will sacrifice the land and 5 goblins, and I should outrace

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:01 am 
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razorborne wrote:
Valkir, I have to wait for you to play Shadow to play Affliction, so you can just not play the swamp and we 2-2.

:duel:

Wait...this may be wrong, let me check my timing options on dropping Tabbie...no, I think its right..., nope, you're right, its a 2-2.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler


I realized after submitting it that Shadow's margin of error was too small to be a truly viable deck, but I left it as punishment for not having patience this round and bombarding Jim with like 7 different submissions...

I also expected a lot more Titans and Mayors...and didn't see the Mayor deck using Wasteland...I found Gargadon after I had submitted my punishment deck :( Otherwise I'd have been a Gargy too, but with Tabbie as my anti-Phantasm (again, cause I expected a lot more efficient token producers)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:20 am 
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Could I recommend a change to the Symmetry Checker formula?
Code:
=IF(
  OR(ISBLANK(Scoresheet!B11), ISBLANK(Scoresheet!K2)),
  "?",
  IF(
    OR(
      AND(Scoresheet!B11 = 0, Scoresheet!K2 = 6),
      AND(Scoresheet!B11 = 1, Scoresheet!K2 = 4),
      AND(Scoresheet!B11 = 2, Scoresheet!K2 = 2),
      AND(Scoresheet!B11 = 3, Scoresheet!K2 = 3),
      AND(Scoresheet!B11 = 4, Scoresheet!K2 = 1),
      AND(Scoresheet!B11 = 6, Scoresheet!K2 = 0)
    ),
    "O",
    "X"
  )
)

Basically it tags matchups where at least one cell is empty with a question mark.
compact version

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:54 am 
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I did eventually check the math myself, and it seems I do indeed beat all the phantasm decks. Which puts me just barely over the 3 point average...

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:59 am 
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Aaarrrgh wrote:
I did eventually check the math myself, and it seems I do indeed beat all the phantasm decks. Which puts me just barely over the 3 point average...

lucky, Dr. D out-mathed me and it turns out I barely lose to the Gargletron Crack decks, which puts me under.

:duel:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:21 am 
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Even if razor somehow found a way to make a two threat deck work I should still have scored slightly over three, just as planned, now I just have to hope is enough to secure one of the top three seasonal spots.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:40 pm 
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So WUBRG grid is still pretty far from complete and undisputed.

Disputed matchups with actual symmetry mismatches:
2v7
2v15
3v11
5v12
11v14

Other disputed matchups with notes suggesting a misscore or uncertainty:
2v12
3v13?
3v14?
4v10
4v13?
4v20
5v13
6v13


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:17 pm 
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20-10 seems wrong too, can't 20 just play savagers, and attack with it until 10 dies?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:56 pm 
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!

I think you're right.

I suppose people get so star-struck by the titans and Emmy that they don't even notice the real wincon is just a 2/4 creature.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:27 pm 
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TMG is now the official fixer of these mismatches go.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:34 pm 
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I realize now how annoying my deck was. It was not my intention at all, I just wanted to give my opponent permanents so they would be drained of life while I had as little life drain happening to me. If it makes things easier, I don't mind forfeiting.

~Zuty


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:38 pm 
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Nah, we'll figure it out.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:12 am 
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Zuty wrote:
I realize now how annoying my deck was. It was not my intention at all, I just wanted to give my opponent permanents so they would be drained of life while I had as little life drain happening to me. If it makes things easier, I don't mind forfeiting.

~Zuty

if Door wouldn't forfeit for that Charm deck last round then there's no way you should forfeit for this. hard-to-grade decks are part of the game, don't feel bad about them.

:duel:

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