Vraska can't instagib both green bringers - Vraska has 5 loyalty and the instagib is a -3. With Bringers on the play, Vraska takes out number 1 but has to wait a turn (and use its +1 loy ability) to take out #2. That turn makes a pretty big difference (as, among other things, it causes one more creature to be created, and it gives Green Bringer player the option to attack one of the other planeswalkers - or force the casting of the second planeswalker to be delayed a turn)

Even if not for the aforementioned red-bringer-targetting-itself trick, how does Ajani stop the red bringer from killing Ajani in the first place? Ajani's +1 doesn't actually tap anything, it just prevents untap. If Red Bringer's first attack is *at* Ajani, it makes Ajani go away.

4vs20 marked 6-0 with note "I go down to 1 on the draw, but I think I scrape through."

I don't think that's right.

On the play, deck20 goes all Auriok and hardcasts Emrakul, and makes sure that the Lotus ends up either in hand or on battlefield (not in the graveyard). Gets bonus turn, swings for 17.
Then you play. You clearly have to Necrotic Sliver the Emrakul, because with any other play Emrakul kills you next turn outright. No Meddling. You can delay the Sliver-popping until the opponent's first main, though, so Emrakul won't be redrawn until turn 3. On turn "2" (not counting bonus turn) Salvagers swing unopposed, you're now at 1. On your turn 2 the best you can do is recover the Necrotic (to hand) and cast Meddling Mage (naming Lotus or Emrakul, your choice). On turn "3" Salvagers swing again, and you must block with Meddling Mage or die. 2/4 salvagers live, 2/2 Mage dies, and with the Mage gone, deck20 can now loop the Lotus again, cast Emrakul again, get a bonus turn, and swing for another 17 there.

I think Serene 6-0's Lily, but I've been all over the place lately, so I may be wrong.



Edit: Yeah, that's wrong...2-2 Lily never casts Helix, waits for Mirror to be casts, Counters, Serene Counters, Lily casts Hit, Serene sac Mirror, loses next round. Lily has to wait until Serene casts Mirror, Serene has to wait until Lily casts Helix

I think you're still wrong. Lily can cast Helix and still have enough mana to counter Mirror, no reason to wait.

Yeh, I've got it Lily win.

Lily can drop Helix with nonblue mana and be in position to Arcane Denial the Mirror should Serene try to cast it. Serene casting it is suicide, because Lily counters with Arcane Denial. If Serene Pacts that, then on Lily's turn when mana replenishes Lily plays Hit, Mirror goes away, and Pact's trigger kills Serene at Serene's next upkeep. If Serene doesn't pact it, Mirror just goes away. When Serene plays Ethersworn, Lily Hits that and proceeds to win.

So casting Mirror first is suicide. So serene casts Ethersworn first. Lily can Hit or Deny it, Serene can't afford to Pact so Ethersworn goes away. Lily drops the Pinnacle. Serene drops the Mirror and Lily lets it be (doesn't try to Hit/Deny it because that would lose!). Lily just quietly wins with Pinnacle, never creating a situation where Serene could break the Mirror.

My deck is more trouble than I realized. Sorry about that.

@Lily: Don't worry! I had more fun scoring your matches than my own.

Ugh, my brain is just not working this week.

Edit: But wait...if Serene casts Ether first what does Lily do? If Lily counters, Serene lets it through, next turn Serene plays Mirror and can counter Hit. If Lily Hit's Ether, Serene can play Mirror and counter the counter. If Lily does nothing, Ether walks to the win...I think it's actually 6-0 Serene...

Just re-read Marks post. It's 2-2 then. Lily can't win except on the Upkeep. That means every turn Serene replays Mirror with Pact as a back-up forever, passes, then losses again on Lily's turn, Break Mirror..., just like Jack said.

Edit 2: The wording on Mirror is "if you would lose the game" that means 100 count Helix breaks the mirror. Helix only wins on your upkeep, not each...unless there's an obscure ruling I'm missing.

Yep, there is. Read the Gatherer Rulings on Mirror. Helix doesn't break the Mirror.

I agree with Mark on 5v19 when 5 is on the draw, but on the play isn't this the case:


Edit: Nvm, I see my mistake. Ajani's first -2 would let Green untap...so the tokens can start poking at Sorin until it dies and Ajani can't compete...can a Sorin Emblem help?

Edit 2:

Nope...if only Sorin's tokens had flying...

If the above playdown was to be happening (Sorin first), I think red might be the best second bringer. Steal a vampire and swing with it means both 1 more damage coming at a PW and one less blocking vampire in their way.

Ugh, there are just so many branches (hadn't even tackled Red second yet )...but I think Troll's deck 6-0's all of them...

Yup, it's a mess. Your "Edit 2" above I believe has a summoning sick token attacking.

Well that's interesting:

the problem is the Trample. Without Trample, the Vamps could buy time for Vraska to either take out the third or ult...this looks like 6-0 to Troll

Just about one more day left to send in Moroii decks!

So what are the chances that the round 3 scores will be finalized before round 4 is over? If we don't have this done soon, it might be able to interfere with starting Season 4.

I added notes to the asymmetrical matchups, confirmed the ones that already had them, and stared into the abyss that is 5 v. 19 and chose to let other people deal with that. I already tackled 3 v. 4, I don't need this.

Oh crap, I completely lost track of time. I don't even have any basic ideas about this meta. I'll try to whip something up in the next couple hours.

lotus-swamp-sengir autocrat

Whoa, so tech it doesn't even use a real card to win. I can't play something that powerful.

shh I fixed it