+1

Added you Monk. Sorry it took so long, this is honestly the first time I have started DotP in the last week. Now that we finally got the new cards though I actually have a reason to start playing again lol.

Hey guys, sorry, new to the forum, trying to work on my White/Red deck, are the lists on page 18 the best still? Any thoughts about adding in any of the new cards?

Hey Kosmo sorry I didn't respond earlier I only got the dlc yesterday. This is my updated list, it is a bit slower but the power level is a lot higher.



Edit - replace 1 plains and inferno titan with 2 trumpet blast.

Edit 2 - replace 1 mountain with 1 jungle shrine

The only card I'm not sold on there is Titan, I don't think you'll ever need him to be honest. If you cut him I think you could get by with 23 land.

I'd add a pair of Bushwhackers in those two slots.

You are possibly right and 2 trumpet blast could fit here. I always seem to have lots of tokens and need a way to alpha strike. I will update the list and test it tonight.

I think I prefer the damage output of trumpet blast over the haste of bushwhacker

Blast is certainly a solid option.

I played your earlier build all last night Monk. Trumpet Blasts were constantly winning games VERY early. If I had seen this new build before you put the blasts back in, I would have thrown a fit. Glad they're back.

Jeez, this new build is really different, much slower. The only thing I lost to last night was Stormbreath dragon so I guess I'm happy to see him in there? I do like the idea of curving Battledriver into Baneslayer

Mentor of the Meek?? Man, this deck is gonna play really different but at least now I have ways to win if the initial rushes don't pan out.

Is there enough spells in this to warrant Pyromancer?

Guttersnipe was winning me games, I'll miss him. I'm not sure I'll miss Kiln Fiend. If there's no way to make him unblockable, I don't think he's as good. Cutting him feels right. Let's really concentrate on the tokens.

Pyromancer has worked well in the new version. You have 23 spells now with blast and it was ok with 21 before the change. Mentor is great with brimaz, rabblemaster and pyromancer. It makes the deck so much better against sweepers and you still have the potentially fast kill with tokens and trumpet blast.

Kiln fiend and coordinated assault were very poor in testing and if we are slowing the deck down a bit then baneslayer and stormbreath are much better than guttersnipe.

22 spells no? But you're right, they're much more spells than I thought.

Coordinated assault is only awesome in heroic decks I think.

Nice job dropping kiln fiend.

i'll try out the new build tonight hopefully, thanks for the update

Lol sorry I was looking at the land count. Let me know how you get on testing Barney I always value your opinion.

Here is the lower curve version I have been working on.

After a little testing I came to the same conclusion everyone else did that Hellspark Elemental just wasn't where this deck wanted to be now with the new cards.

4-1 in the games I played yesterday. Will continue to update as I do more testing (have been busy trying to make Wolf tribal a thing and tweaking my Abzan Seance deck).

Trumpet Blast was certainly a good choice. I used it in my Jeskai token deck to good effect, and it is even better here because we are so much faster.

I dropped Banefire completely, although I am not sure that is the correct call. It just wasn't really that impressive as either removal or a win-con in the deck with this low a curve. It may still be worth it to run 1 copy of Banefire just for flood protection though. If I were to do so I would probably run a 1/1 split with it and Act of Treason.

Monk, only had time for one match with new build. Matchmaking on Xbox one has become insufferable.

So few of my kiln fiends were getting through that I am really thinking that was a great cut.

Ok here goes...

Ugh bad loss to RG, an early anger of the gods took out my four tokens and two phantom generals. Got four tokens back up with trumpet blast but his genesis hydra of nine got some insane dragon and that's all she wrote. I got mana flooded too.

Deck just wasn't fast enough that match. Only one game sample size though.

I'm not a huge fan of Banefire. The deck doesn't want a big dumb tapout fireball, it wants speed. It won't be removing relevant things when you're running 21 lands, and you shouldn't be running more lands in this kinda of deck. I like the white though, the UR versions seemed lacking in really good ways to protect the pyromancer, and white for gods' willing is not a thing I thought of. Being able to play a two drop and still have mana up to protect it on turn 3 is pretty good.

That is why I cut it.

Theoretically speaking, you aren't going to be casting Banefire for more than X=3-4 in the majority of scenarios, and even that is pushing it.

For that reason it doesn't exactly work well as removal, or as a late game bomb.

It may still be worth it to run a singleton though. Even without being a reliable big finisher, or a way to take out big threats it certainly has its uses.

The deck may not run enough mana to make it more than an overcosted Shock in most scenarios, but there are a lot of creatures in this format with 1-2 toughness that are serious threats. Which is part of the reason Shock is so good overall within the meta. Having an extra 1-2 copies of Shock, even slightly overcosted ones isn't terrible. The option always exists to cast X=0 as well, just another way to activate Fiend/Pyromancer/Snipe for only (not optimal, but it could come up).

There are always going to be times where we get flooded as well, because probability and all that. So having at least one around to protect in case of severe mana flood isn't a TERRIBLE idea.

As I said, I think the deck is overall better completely cutting Banefire, but a compelling case could be made to run a single copy, as it isn't terrible and it does have its uses. The most likely choice for the swap would be a single copy of Act of Treason or Trumpet Blast, most likely the former (since the token plan is so powerful and I think the deck gets more out of the second Trumpet Blast than it does from the second Act of Treason).

If I were to make a SB Banefire would probably be one of the first cards on the list though. Been trying to come up with a SB for the deck for a little while now and I am kind of at a loss. Not that there aren't plenty of cards that fit and wouldn't be good in certain matchups (stuff like Mentor of the Meek), but rather that most of the deck is tuned so well, there isn't much outside of maybe Act of Treason that I would ever want to SB out, regardless of the matchup.

I put Banefire in almost every red deck I have. It just wins games, plain and simple. I think this deck is fast enough to bring the opponent's life total down to 4 or 5, and then Banefire for the win the next turn. I think Act of Treason is a pretty terrible card. It just takes their biggest creature for one turn, and makes them chump a token, or it's just burn to the face. And if it's most likely to be burn to the face, why not just run Banefire?? At least it can hit upstairs or down.

And trumpet blast is only good if you have a bunch of creatures. It makes sense to include it in this token deck, but sometimes they Planar Cleansing your board the turn before you were going to win with Trumpet Blast, like what happened to me just last night. Luckily I had a Banefire that finished the game. And it's uncounterable!!! Sorry, I'm just a Banefire fanboy. I had to express my love for the card.

Eonblueapocalypse, have you considered Triplicate Spirits? I only say that because your deck seems to lack evasion and seems to mitigate it with some pump spells to remove blockers.

I considered it, and it could potentially work.

The biggest issue I have with Triplicate Spirits here is that we are likely going to need to convoke to cast it, and convoking means tapping down creatures you want to be attacking with early. Having to tap a Kiln Fiend (one that Triplicate Spirits activates) to put three 1/1 tokens on the table isn't where this deck wants to be IMO.

In regards to Act of Treason it is certainly the card in the deck with the highest chances of just outright being dead (either the opponent has nothing worth stealing or they just chump the stolen creature with a token or whatever).

That said, it is a way to activate Kiln Fiend while simultaneously helping to clear the way for him to attack in. It also gives us an out to certain plays that can just outright kill out gameplan. Cards like Pelakka Wurm which can just outright brick us depending on the current board state. Nothing like watching someone drop a Pelakka Wurm and gaining 7 life hoping to stabilize, then immediately taking it with Act of Treason (which in most cases completely negates that 7 life gain from the ETB) and still pushing damage through with something like Kiln Fiend. I think it really helps the deck against certain cards like that. Most especially since I don't feel like the deck has the room to run something like Skullcrack to counter these sorts of things (because Skullcrack not hitting creatures is a HUGE downside here).

I really feel like if you are on the fence than a 1/1 split between Banefire and Act of Treason is the way to go. Both have the potential to be really good and really bad in certain matchups, and both represent potential outs to different difficult situations.

As for the deck not having a lot of evasion. Honestly, most of our stuff doesn't need evasion! With so much capability to create tokens, the deck often has an easy time going wide enough where it can push damage through regardless of an opponents board position. Cards like Guttersnipe help with this as well, threatening the opponent at the same time you are building board presence to go wide.

The only cards in the deck that really actively want/need evasion are Kiln Fiend and Goblin Rabblemaster. Cards like Shock and Act of Treason help them to get through when you need them to, and while Coordinated Assault and Swift Justice don't actually give evasion, having them in hand often represents "either take 4/8/12 or more damage, or lose a creature or two" which may not be optimal for pushing damage, but IS still a good place to be at none the less (especially if you take into account the incidental lifegain, and potential Snipe/Pyro activations).

I think people often forget that Gods Willing can be used as evasion as well, which is exactly why I think that this deck is so good (Gods Willing+Fiend was the starting point for the deck because I liked the interaction so much).

Gods Willing not only saves your creatures when you need it to, but also always has the option of potentially making stuff unblockable as well. This is part of the reason that T3 Kiln Fiend with Gods Willing up is SOOOO good in this meta. If your opponent uses removal, it gets blanked and they likely didn't progress the board at all. Meaning Kiln Fiend potentially gets to attack in freely the next turn (with 3-4 mana up to buff it), which is usually a pretty big swing since most of the spells we have the buff it cost 1-3 mana AND a lot of them also progress our board position as well.

If your opponent doesn't try and kill Kiln Fiend, well then you untap with Kiln Fiend ready to attack and Gods Willing in hand. Even if they played something the previous turn to progress their board, chances are you can use Gods Willing to slap "Protection from X color" on it and make that creature of theirs no longer matter unless they have at least 2 creatures of different colors on the table. Kiln Fiend is now likely attacking in unfettered as a 4/2 and you still have another potential 2-3 mana left up to spend on buffing it up even more (while also progressing your board).

Rabblemaster works the same way. Gods Willing does an excellent job of allowing him to get through and swing in for a ton of potentially unblockable damage.

This deck does not play a fireball. The curve is far too low for it to be relevant. Act of treason isn't exactly where you want to be, but duels doesn't give a ton of better options. Not playing trumpet blast because of planar cleansing is insane and you need to take another look at the mana costs.

You're right it doesn't play Fireball. It does, however, play Banefire. And if you read what I said, I do in fact run Trumpet Blast, and I never suggested taking it out for Banefire. I suggested taking Act of Treason out for Banefire, which is what I did. And thank Magic Jesus I did, because it has been winning me games left and right. Thanks for the advice though.