They buffed his E in exchange for giving a 3/4 of a second warning. It was already absurdly hard to aim, so anyone who can do it isn't going to care that much.

The only changes here that are debuffs are reducing the ult ratio from 1.2 to 1 and adding a less than a second warning to something that used to be instantaneous. Everywhere else his cooldowns were buffed, his range was buffed, etc. The Q, despite now being a skillshot, is supposedly a lot more damaging.... and anyone who can aim his E can aim his Q.

I'm sure veigar will be fine.

If veigar can't stun people then he can't land his W on them, which means he won't be able to reliably 100-0 people. Its also a huge hit to his safety because if he approaches someone and misses his stun he has no escape and will probably end up dead. The delay on the stun means that even if the veigar player is able to aim the stun, its not going to land nearly as consistently as it used to, because the enemy has ample opportunity to escape it.

EDIT: And i doubt these changes will make it to live in their current form, they'll probably compensate for the loss of consistency in his stun somehow, maybe by making his meteor easier to land or by adding a slow to some other part of his kit so he can land his stun and escape more reliably

Mkay.

I am running into a large number of people on my team building Trinity Force on people like Jinx and Tristana.

What is this?

Tri-force doesn't sound great on them, especially jinx, but there are worse items to build I imagine. ADCS can generally capitalize on most of the stats and passives triforce offers. So... its a mediocre buy? Don't know why you've been seeing it lately.

Most ADC's can't get the best use out of the spellblade passive, the 30 ability power, or even the 200 mana. The rage passive is also questionable, and adc's have trouble making use of the extra health (although it can't hurt)

What you get that is really good out of the item are the 30 AD, the 8% Ms, and the 10% crit chance. But you are supposed to get all you need from phantom dancer and infinity edge anyways..... at least when it comes to anything but the AD. And you should be planning to build those.

You are basically overpaying by 1500 gold for a strictly worse item.





As for why I'm seeing it, it's because Trinity Force has that special "omg so good" appeal that makes people derp and get it on champs that can't use the stats efficiently.



An example of a good jinx build, for comparison, is:

Berserker's Greaves + enchant
Infinity Edge
The Bloodthirster
Statikk Shiv
Last Whisper
some 6th item (probably Guardian Angel or Phantom Dancer; i go with Dancer)

the sheen proc, ap, and mana are definitely the stats that adcs need the least but its not unusual for an adc to be able to use them. A little health is good on every carry but longer range or more mobile ones like caitlyn and ezreal need it less. The rage passive is really good on almost every carry though, because without exception they do a lot of auto attacking and kiting.

Trist, for example can make decent use out of the sheen proc with her gapcloser and resets, she should be able to proc it multiple times in a fight. She also has ap ratios that definitely don't waste the 30 ap. I don't think she needs the mana though as her cooldowns are fairly long. She likes the health so that she can jump into her opponents when its useful.

So i would argue that very little of the states are /wasted/ on her. Its not a bad puchase but... like you said, you'd be better off stacking ad, crit, and attack speed from items like phantom dancer and infinity edge.

Whenever i see a lot of people doing something that doesn't make sense to me I assume its because a popular player did it on steam and everyone is copying them.

LOL

Veigar's E is what made him good. It was basically an easy to land stun that could hit multiple people in a fight. Without it he will have problems in fights with his short range and squishiness, he will also have problems one shotting assassins before they can kill him since he won't be able to land a W.

His E had no warning and no way to dodge it other than never approaching Veigar.

This is the stated reason for changing it. It's like the silence Talon used to have. Yeah, it was a very good part of the character and people were unhappy to see it go. But there's a reason people were very unhappy to see it go.

I will wait until live testing before further speculating on the future prospects of Veigar.

The problem with giving it a delay is that it is a very narrow line, somebody shouldn't even need great reaction times to dodge it if it takes .75s to happen. Does Veigar not get much worse if the best he can hope to do is trap someone either inside or outside of the arena?

A) Really? 3/4 of a second is that much time? Generally put, you have to be already moving to avoid something like that. AND with the size of the ability in question, I'm sure people can compensate JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CHAMPION IN THE GAME. I mean, it's not like Jinx's W or any of Xerath's abilities ever hit anyone is it? PS, the range on this has increased by almost 1/3. Veigar can now be farther away than he used to and still hit you with this.

The only way people are going to escape consistently is with flash abilities, WHICH IS THE INTENT.

B) We are ignoring everything that can cause slows including items like Rylai's Crystal Scepter. There are ways to compensate with items that are perfectly fine, and AGAIN this is what every other champion in the game has to do (well almost every).

C) No warning super stun 100-0 veigar with no way to fight back is not something the developers wanted in the game. Seriously. Think about what you are arguing this little guy should have been able to keep doing here.

for reference, cho gath's rupture's indicator appears slightly less than 0.75 seconds before the spikes pop up, and its often considered a difficult spell to land if the opponents see it coming. Most long-range skillshots are easy to dodge from maximum range unless they come from the fog of war. This includes xerath's stun and nid's spear. I don't know what the delay on xerath's q is but i imagine its less than half a second.

Veigar's stun definitely had to go, it had no counterplay and was ridiculously strong. Veigar's kit needed it to function though. People have been wrong though, I think its a pretty serious nerf but time has always proven that the only reliable way to tell what is strong and what is weak is to see it actually played.

Chill dude, there is no need to "yell".

Cho'Gath's rupture has a .625 cast time and is a circle rather than a line, it is already somewhat difficult to land. Logically, new Veigar stun should be easy to avoid.



I disagree. People might need to flash to get out of the arena if something bad is going to happen to them (like always) but I doubt flash will need to be used often to avoid the stun.



Rylai's only procs on spell damage. The only spell Veigar has with as much range as his stun is his comet, and that is quite easy to dodge if you aren't CC'd.



I agree that it isn't a great design, but I also think that if they don't give him enough to compensate he will become weak since he was never dominant in the first place. His Q change might be enough since it actually gives him good range, we will have to wait to see if it is enough.

His E now has a range of 850 too....... it's not like you are always going to be aiming this at max range at someone running away.

I own Elo and my Elo gives me the kind of opponent I expect to see in bronze 1 / silver 5 (I refuse to play ranked now a days). Thus I'm not the perfect tester but when I get a chance I'll try out the new Veigar.

Finally found a use for Devourer enchantment.

On a Stalkers Blade with Shyvana, I got the stacks to about 84? And I probably could have gone higher if my team hadn't surrendered.

Throw in the +25 base (before stacks) magic damage on hits and the +50% attack speed and it was quite a fun game.

that new character looks pretty cool

Traveler's Call seems like a pain in the *** on a support.

Cosmic Binding looks like your standard Lux/Morg stun, albeit a little better since it hits two things.

The W...... I don't know. I would have to see it in play.

E is going to be a ...... it's going to be Kalista all over again. Really good if your teammates know what the heck they are doing, and really bad in solo q if Bard isn't walking around the jungle for some reason. It's not an escape tool, and basically a pure engage or jungling tool.... so I don't know.

I think the value of the R will be purely based on how much damage Bard himself is able to dish out. Putting everything into a Zhonya's effect is probably going to be a decent escape.... but offensively this might be as useful as a bean bag chair in a team fight.




In other news, I currently own all champs . And DJ Sona comes out tomorrow.

so you bought 22 champions in 2 weeks? that seems a little extreme

Not really.

I buy $20 Rp like once every two weeks? And I only spent it on sales......

Do that long enough and at some point you will realize that if you splurge, combined with your ip, you can finish your collection without waiting for sales. With enough left over for that one really cool skin you like.


Basically, I rarely buy skins so I didn't see the reason why not to. Total, I think I've bought 3 skins? Pulsefire Ezreal, Ironscale Shyvana, and Siren Cassiopeia. With DJ Sona it will be 4? Most of that rp would have just sat there forever anyways, and I also spent like 12000? ip I had been saving up.

Speaking of the devil, I just went 10/7/19 with Sona. ... This is not an outstanding score recently. ... Dang.