I have underlined the portions of this statement which make it clear that you do NOT, in fact, understand me perfectly.

This is an elaborate ploy to have the town target what scum feels is a threat to their win-con.

Currently it is Day 3 and we have:
6 town to 2 scum

as of Day 4, if we miss-lynch:
4 town to 2 scum

as of Day 5, if we miss-lynch again:
2 town to 2 scum

I don't like those numbers. I'd rather us get to Day 5 and have 4 town to 2 scum remaining, so we can push into Day 6, and if for any reason Town's auto-win option fails to trigger like I've promised, you'll still be ahead of the scum team.

Hmm, imo, verifying Zinger's alignment doesn't really seem to change how we should proceed if he flips town anyway.

Day 3, now, 8 left.
2 died (Assume Zinger town lynch.)
Day 4, 6 left
1 died (Assume NL)
Day 5, 5 left
1 died (Assume NL)
Day 6, 4 left

Zinger theorized/guessed that mafia's win con involves mafia killing all of town which I am doubtful. The mafia win-cons in my previous games were to make up for half or more of the players which should happen the moment right after night 5 in the above scenario. I don't even know if mafia can have alt win-cons or rather, a different main win-con.

Also,


I am thinking I know what you are driving at but can you explain this a bit?

While you are at it, mind expanding on the underlined parts mentioned in this bit too?

Official Vote Count
seTiny
15377

No Lynch
zinger

Zinger2099
felbatista

Deadline: Sunday 15th, 22:00 GMT+1 (+- 24,5 hours)

Kay.





So what you're saying is that we instantly discover who is not town by who doesn't go along with your plan, but I'm totally misunderstanding that you're holding the notion that people aren't allowed to disagree with you. Right.





You asked for just today to no lynch. Let's crunch numbers (the following assumes 1 NK, mislynches):

Day 3: No lynch; 6-2
Night 3: NK; 5-2
Day 4: Mislynch; 4-2
Night 4: NK; 3-2
Day 5: Mislynch; 2-2
Night 5: NK; 1-2
Day 6 comes to being at 1-2

Day 3: Mislynch; 5-2
Night 3: NK; 4-2
Day 4: Mislynch; 3-2
Night 4: NK; 2-2
Day 5: No lynch; 2-2
Night 5: NK; 1-2
Day 6 comes to being at 1-2

Hey, look at that the numbers are the same! So unless you're saying you lied about what you were asking of the other players then it looks like I do understand.



So, we've established that a Day 5 no lynch would achieve the same ends of reaching Day 6 as a Day 3 no lynch by the premises you've set forth. Given that immediately preceding this you were trying to assert that I didn't understand what you were getting at, it's only too clear that you either had no idea what I was talking about or you didn't even bother to consider what I said. Now given that I know you know how to crunch the numbers, the only conclusion is that you didn't even bother to consider what I said.





So we see above you clearly state you are ignoring the first clause of your win con, which is the town win con. I could also quote where you said you were less interested in scum hunting than you were simply surviving. Tell me again how you're striving to achieve the town win con. No, your plan, while possibly aiming to achieve a town victory, is not based on achieving the town win con, by your own admission.



So far we've established that a Day 5 no lynch achieves the same end as a Day 3 no lynch, which you're in denial about. In turn we can conclude because of this that town can strive to (and possibly may) achieve it's win con before having to fall back on your plans. Yet you're still fufu'ing this notion and you want me to believe it has nothing to do with your own admission that you've chosen to not strive for the town win con.



So to recap, you've established a plan to circumvent the town win con, have urged others to follow your plan, have tried to establish the notion that anybody that disagrees with you is automatically scum, yet you want me to believe you don't think you know best. If that were the case, why are you doing so much to discourage anybody from following any other course of action?



This smells like a challenge to me. I say you can't argue your point satisfactorily without relying on any assumptions you've made or your NLP. You say I don't understand. So let's see you make me understand without pulling on any assumptions or your NLP. To be more concise, you'll have to argue why town should opt not to scum hunt based solely on your word, without your NLP to use as evidence that you can't be lying and without the assumption that mafia has to eliminate all town to win. Go forth and logic.

So by that single post, Confused is now scum?

How'd you pull confused into that Story?

Yes, me. This response was to you questioning my support of his no lynch one which I quoted so why would I need to reiterate what I was quoting? I was saying that you were wrong in claiming Zinger was losing support. He didn't have support in the first place. No where in my response was I denying that I supported Zinger's no lynch. But you seem to want to insinuate otherwise



Oh I see you are painting with the broadest strokes possible. Because I said something negative about story and you said something negative about story they must be the same. I gave a reason why no one was going to come forward to say they were targeted. A reason and argument that you had not given. But hey since it was negative towards story and you had said something negative toward story they must be mirror images.



If you read the whole quoted post instead of the just the edited down version you would have seen the three of the dead that were not targeted were on his list of suspects, yet not one target. With me also not a target, I could eliminate 5 players. When I read the role of jailkeeper it said that the role can leave the target untargetable and if that had been the case then I could eliminate 6 possible targets. Which left no reasonable target based on his actions and suspicions.

His target information could have helped determined his level of townness. It would also tell us who was roleblocked N1 and could not take an action. Who came forward day 2 saying no no no don't do that? Oh right you did, but then when you got targeted you demanded the same information. Somehow us knowing who storyteller targeted on n2 was going to somehow help the mafia more than it would have town. I didn't believe it then and I don't believe it now. I think you were afraid that the information would help town too much and you couldn't have that.




Oh look you conveniently overlook his next post where he says he wants to get to day 5 with 4 town and 2 scum. To do that we would need to no lynch today and tomorrow. Something not possible unless we hit scum or no lynch today. Best we would be able to do is 3/2 with a no lynch on day four and five if we mislynch today.



Also both your examples show after the lynch on day 5 that mafia and town would be tied. In pick your role mafia this happened and meant the game was over without needing the NK. If this is the case with most mafia games and not a exception we would not get to day 6 in either of your examples.

I am confident that you are scum and I think 3/1 split would on day 5 would also be good. So:

Vote:15377



@Story: You are quoting zinger quoting felbatista, where do you get confused from?


@Felbatista: A zinger lynch would be a mistake. This would not help us at all. We need to hit scum or no lynch.

I believe the scum team is likely 15377 and felbatista at this point.

Less "everybody that disagrees with me is scum" more challenge answering. Seriously, you trying to win worst townie every award this game?



I didn't claim he was losing support. I claimed he wasn't drawing support. It's my supposition that you jumped on board figuring more people would and when they didn't you jumped off board. Which is exactly what the thread record shows. You see I'm not drawing conclusions out of my ass, I'm drawing conclusions off of what has actually happened.



No I'm painting pretty accurate strokes. At no point do you rationalize that Story couldn't have targeted a living player before I do. You rationalize why the dead won't come forward, yes, but the dead are a far cry from the living. For one thing, they can't come forward regardless. But the fact that you're trying to take credit for an argument that you didn't make and can't factually prove you did just shows how desperate you are to stay alive. Town has no desperation. Despite what Zinger says, if either of us die today and flip town, there's room to lynch the other tomorrow. And if the game doesn't end there, we can no lynch into Day 6. So there's no reason for town to feel desperate. I certainly don't. I was ready to die last night. Why aren't you?



I read the whole thing. None of it was an argument against Story, as you would have us now believe. Furthermore you're trying to attribute that Story's target was unreasonable at this point based on the fact that he didn't target his suspects, yet earlier in the day you claim its quite reasonable to doc yourself if you expect to die, but this also doesn't address the fact that it's quite reasonable to doc anybody you find townly during the course of the day, which is not something you address in your post. You simply fish.

As for why my fishing was more justified than yours, I had actual information about Story's role. I knew how it functioned and fishing for his N1 target could then actually give us a better picture of the game state. You had no such information. You were simply fishing for fishing's sake. There's a time and a place for fishing, and it wasn't when you were digging nor was it the right spot you were digging in.




Oh look, you conviently overlook where I made this argument originally after he said he only wanted to no lynch today to secure mafia's loss. I pointed out that, by his own logic, no lynching today wasn't necessary. That point still holds true if we take his premises to be true. The fact that he's now stating he'd like town to be in better shape is completely irrelevant because, by his own premises, it's always going to be irrelevant. The only point at which it's not irrelevant is if you invalidate the premise that mafia has to eliminate the entire town to win. In which case we would need to no lynch from here to the rest of the game (assuming an auto win day 6) to keep mafia from getting to that even number of players situation that normally constitutes their win con, which is something he openly admitted to not advocating. This was my whole point: we can either strive for the town's actual win con, or we can forsake it for something that may or may not happen the way we expect it to.
Better luck slandering next time. /tipshat



As I said, that argument was made based on the premises that Zinger is working from, the most important being that mafia need to eliminate all town players to win. This is a major assumption on his part and a major risk to following his plan. This is why I advocate striving to eliminate all mallet aligned players via the town's actual win con, which is only achievable by actually lynching people.

I don't know. I'm obviously confused as to who's who right now.

According to Zinger, the supposed auto win-con shouldn't involve him anyway, and it's been repeatedly proven that no lynching toDay or Tomorrow or even the Day after would all result in the same effective outcome.
So I don't see why he could be so desperate for us to no lynch today.
Added to my suspicions from before, which I only dropped because I thought Numbers was cop, but since he wasn't...

Vote Zinger

Weaksauce Story. Truly weaksauce.

Zinger is by far the least likely person we should be lynching today. Bad plays do not make good lynches. 95% of the time you'll mislynch. By my count we have a little less than 5 hours to deadline, so today is probably going to be decided on just those two votes. If perchance somebody else gets their ass in here in time and throws a vote either on me or no lynch, I'll break the tie.

Naturally, of course, if Zinger votes back down or some other wagon just comes out of the last minute blue, this won't be necessary.

Deadline is questionable, but just in case

Unvote. Vote: 15377

I've been pretty strict on deadlines so far. The last 2 votes were too late.

Official Vote Count
seTiny
15377

No Lynch
zinger

Zinger2099
felbatista
storyteller

15377
seTiny



With so few events during the past night discussion comes to a stop mostly. A few people try to continue the search, unfazed by their earlier victory.
At the end of the day, zinger2099 is given the verdict to be sent to Higan.
The gang comes together to blast him away and as his soul comes before the Yama, her voice once again rings in your ears.
"You have gotten rid of Sukuna Shinmyoumaru. Her intentions were pure."

As the sun sets you once again seek the shelter of your homes.

It is now night 3. 72 hours to send in your targets

Sorry for the delay people. Had a real rush at work this past week.

No flavor text this time.

15377 is dead,Marisa Kirisame, Gensokyo aligned

It is now day 4. You know the drill. 10 days.

Well, figures that would happen.
So, we know now that Zinger was town, so the D6 is more likely to be true.
Going for the autowin of course relies on squinty not being mafia, and mafia not having another power.
Also with the recent revelations, I'd guess Numbers was right about SeTiny being scum.
A bit late but I can kinda see why Zinger wanted to no lynch yesterDay.
It becomes a lot bigger risk to pursue the autowin this way.

The autowin is dead. You and Felbatista killed him. Going for the auto win at this point would only give the mafia the win. Two NK will put us at 2/2 and we probably lose.

Zinger was an inchling. Only an inchling can active the mallet which needed 5 days to recharge (again in the opening day post) which would make it viable to undo the current wish. Also Zinger said he needed to be alive for his ability to trigger on Day 6 (emphasis mine).


It was clear Zinger was town and the auto win had to do with him being alive. I knew that he was an inchling from N1 target and tried to get the point across many times without outright saying it. Putting it fully out there meant that he would have been targeted by mafia. This is also why I thought 15377 was mafia because he would have been able to steal the mallet and stop zinger's ability.

It was after I mentioned the mallet that Storyteller was suspicious of Zinger again.



Even after he was outright told that Zinger was town .



AND that is was a bad idea to vote for Zinger he continued to be suspicious of Zinger



Storyteller then voted for Zinger Saying:



First of all as I showed earlier in this post Zinger explicitly said that he had to be alive at the end of the game. Second Zinger said he wanted to get to day 5 with a 4/2 split which is what showed the difference between no lynch yesterday and no lynch today. So it is quite obvious why he was so desperate for the no lynch yesterday.

Which I pointed out before storyteller voted in my debate with 15377:



I think instead he realizes what Zinger was and how the auto win would work. So he claimed Zinger to be suspicious and pushed for a zinger lynch even after being told it was a bad idea.



So this is why 15377 died? So scum can push a lynch against me putting us at 3/2. Then with a NK they win (2/2). We cannot mislynch today.

Just because 15377 flipped town (I really thought he was scum), does not automatically mean I am scum. I am town. If I was scum I would have killed Zinger N2 stopping any chance of the autowin not support it. Nor would I put the spotlight on myself by killing 15377.