My main suspects, in no particular order:
Squinty - I still see his actions on D1 as detrimental to Town, and he has done very little in the game since that.
Numbers/Story - At this point, I'm inclined to believe one of them is scum. Story's claim of targeting Numbers made me wary.
Tiny - His behavior this game is rather unusual for him.

I'm only going to vote when I feel it's necessary, though.




What's with this attempt to buddy me for no reason?

Official Vote Count
Storyteller
15377

I tried to buddy you how?

@15377: You going to answer your own questions?

My reads so far in descending order of trust.:

Zinger: Probably town. I believe him when he says we have a way to auto win on day 6. The belief is purely based on flavor, but as I've said before the flavor has to mean something.

15377: Probably town. Active and seems to be scum hunting. He hasn't done or said anything to make me think otherwise.

Squinty: Probably town. I doubt the mafia team has a method to perform two kills that we saw in Night1 and with the lack of kill last night suggest he was telling the truth about being a vig.

Felbastita: Neutral. Been active, though each time he votes he comments on who he wants to see dead not who he believes is scum.

Pariah: Neutral. Said he was in the hospital, which would explain the no vote during day 3

Confused: Neutral. Less than active hasn't really said much each day. Hasn't posted at all today. Voted for neosilk with no explanation.

Storyteller: Probably scum. With his first post day 2 he was quick to point out that he didn't save anyone. Then just as quick to claim a save day 3. During day 2 when I realized all the names he couldn't have targeted for a save I wondered if he targeted someone to roleblock. I asked and got hesitation instead of an answer. Finally today, with the same hesitation, he tells us that he targeted himself N1. I believe he did that to protect himself from squinty while still allowing squinty to kill. He was tied with Garren's vote count at the end of day 1 making him a valid vig target. I think he also convinced the mafia he could get town pants if they didn't kill anyone and he claimed to save 15377.

@Tiny, given that I've made numerous posts on why I suspect Story and am currently the only player with a vote out, I feel I've more than adequately met my own request. Later in the day, however, I do plan on speaking more about my thoughts but for now I am deferring the talking to players that I feel have been rather absent today.

@Story, if I'm not mistaken I believe Fel is asking why you're lumping him in with me and Zinger given he has not been vocally espousing suspicion on you today like myself and Zinger have.

Here's the thing, if I were Mallet aligned and some player, especially one with a No Lie Policy, were to show up and say "you have until Day 6 to win or else Town auto wins," that would put my balls in a vice, if you pardon my term.

Looking at the math of the situation, assuming the mafia believes my claim, they can't afford a single mistake. Mafia, as of right now, needs us to mis-lynch every single Day, and needs to also correctly hit a target every single Night without being blocked by a Doc in order to have any hope of winning. Anything less than successfully downing a Town player on every Day and Night to come results in their loss.

Again, this is going on the presumption that the Mafia players alive buy my claim, but even if they doubt my claim it should at least have them a little worried. They NEED to convince us to lynch a town player today in order to win. And the only player really pushing for a lynch right now is 15377.

Seriously, we can always lynch storyteller on Day 4. We can AFFORD to risk it on Day 4, because once we have successfully No Lynched even just one Day, scum no longer have the means to win (provided that our resident Vig doesn't muck up the numbers). Let's end the Day in a No Lynch. It hedges our bets for town, and also, in theory, it should show us who among us is REALLY against the No Lynch scenario (which, in theory, the scum team should be, cuz they can't win if we don't Lynch toDay). Even if you doubt my claim, giving me one Day without a Lynch to at least chance that I am telling the truth is worth the risk.

The question for me about Story is whether he is or not the role he claims to be. I would want clarity actually.

The other is Pariah but feels unfair to judge his really long disappearance if he has really been hospitalized as he said he is.

I think I may have had Fel and SeTiny mixed up. Sorry.

@Zinger, if according to you two town need to die everyday from here until Day 6 for mafia to win, why are you so insistent we have to no lynch today? Your numbers are based on mafia having to eliminate town completely, yes? If so they'd have to play a near perfect game from the start of the game to have a shot of winning. At base, the numbers only allow them one screw up. They get one additional screw up for every additional nk that hits town. That leaves them currently with only two misses at their disposal for victory by your terms. They've already used those up. So from your logicing base, we don't need to no lynch until at least day 5 as a last ditch effort to push the game into day 6 if we haven't lynched another scum by then. So, again, why the rush for a no lynch now?

@Zinger, a question for you. Assuming a Town win by reaching day 6, can you personally win with Town even if you're dead?

@15377: Because not lynching someone toDay guarantees the scum team loses this game. Why put that off until Day 5? If everyone who is town pushes for a No Lynch, in theory the only ones left not pushing for a No Lynch should be scum, because again, scum CAN'T win if we start No Lynching toDay. At best, it means we identify who is scum and immediately win the game, at worst it means the scum choose to still hide among us, but we still win the game.

@felbatista: Why do you need to know that? You're fishing. I can only see one reason for anyone to be fishing about my role at this point in the game, with all that's been revealed, because you're scum and you're looking for a loop-hole cuz I've put your balls in a vice.

And you're being overly defensive. Who's the scum now, bro?

The reason I don't want to NL today is because I have no reason to trust you. You saying that Town wins by Day 6 a million times doesn't make it more true. If you're telling the truth, a NL at any point in the game is enough to ensure a Town victory. And what's the best way to see if you're telling the truth without risking the game?

On the flip side, if you're not telling the truth, or omitting it, lynching you is also a good plan.

In summary:
- If you're telling the truth, lynching you helps proving it, giving the rest of Town more reason to NL tomorrow.
- If you're not telling the (whole) truth, lynching you helps Town, because your plan wouldn't have Town's best interest in mind.

That's my reasoning, anyway. I asked you that question because a positive answer would remove any reason for you to not be on board with my plan...

... And because I wanted to see if you would be overly defensive. Thanks for that.

I'm not overly defensive, in fact I am not defensive in the slightest.

I simply am aware that fishing about my role is a scumtell at this point in time, since the information provided to me through my role is of major detriment to the scum team.

Henceforth, your curiosity about it is certainly of interest.

Look, guys, it really is very simple logic. Scum CAN NOT end the day in a No Lynch if they hope to win.

If everyone who is Town hops on board with this and forces the issue, we instantly discover who is not Town by view of those who are against it.

Are you guys telling me you DON'T want to find out who is not Town?

@Zinger, why wait? Because striving to achieve an established win con for the town is going to be a better plan 100% of the time. If we only need to no lynch once to ensure town makes it to day 6, I call that the back up plan. Day 5 if we are looking to be in dire straits, we no lynch, send the game into day 6 and cross our fingers that you aren't screwing the town over. Until then we strive to eliminate the mafia team because that's what town's win con is. You say that anybody that doesn't conform to your plan is clearly mafia, but your plan is based on information that you solely possess (and are unwilling to share in full detail) that doesn't correlate with the town win con nor, as you claim, the scum win con. Again, however, you are assuming you know the scum win con. People that don't just blindly follow you aren't going to be scum, they are going to be decent mafia players, at the least.

I think Zinger is starting to push his NLP a little too hard at this point. Seems Fel is suspicious about this point too. So here's a little story about the time me and KoD broke his NLP on the mothership. To set the stage me and KoD are 2/3 of the scum team. We are trouncing. We are getting bored. We decide off stage to pick apart Zinger's NLP to swing a lynch on him. At the time Zinger had a NLP manifesto on the site, enumerating exactly what his NLP meant. It began by defining a lie, which included lies of omission as lies. In his exceptions, lies of omission were not stated like alignment claims were. Being the scum team and having more information and all, we perused Zingers posts and KoD found what he felt was evidence of an omission. After some "gentle" prodding, Zings finally came out that he was omitting things, but doing such wasn't a lie, to which we threw his own definition in his face and then insisted he was outright lying for saying it wasn't a lie. He later amended his statement to it was an exception but by that point me and KoD felt pretty satisfied that we had thrashed his NLP. He disagrees.

So what does this mean? Well for starters when you see me say I don't put a lot of faith in Zinger's NLP, this is why. Unlike FFP's NLP, which sprung from FFP's chosen lifestyle of always being truthful, Zinger's springs out of what seems to be a handicap he's placed on himself when he plays. It's aim is directed more at not telling outright lies, but is not interested in the concept of not deceiving people altogether. An example of the difference in the two is best shown by FFP's actions in one of the Heroes mafias where he replaced onto the scum team and in his first post admitted that his predecessor had lied about his role and he would not be continuing the farce. A simple omission there (which was what the rest of the scum teams advised - simply say nothing else about his role for the rest of the game), such as Zinger has shown to employ, could have circumvented FFP's immediate demise. Given the contrast in values, there's clearly still room for doubt in Zinger's NLP towards his motives. While I do not feel he's told us anything that's strictly* a lie so far, there is still much that is left unsaid, and it's in that realm that my doubts about Day 6 lie. With two scum left and two shots at lynching scum before we even reach needing to make a decision day 5 about no lynching or not, it doesn't make any sense to forsake your win con for an unknown that may not even need to come to fruition.

*Half truths of half truth/half omission are not strictly lies, and acceptable per Zinger's NLP.

I'm not proposing we No Lynch the rest of the game away. I'm proposing we No Lynch toDay, because doing so removes the scum team's hope of winning.

As for the rest of your bit calling my "motives" into question: I don't like lying. I make it a point to not tell lies as much in real life as I do in this game. Mafia is, however, a game of deceit, at its heart, and as such my NLP allows for omitting the truth in order to play the game. That's the truth.

And I'm not pushing my NLP at all, in fact.

I have claimed that I know of an alternate win-con for town. If you buy my claim and you are Town, then my argument for No Lynching has merit. If you buy my claim and you are scum, then you should be vehemently against the idea (as you currently are). If you don't buy my claim at all then there isn't much point discussing the issue. I'm not proposing people HAVE to believe me because I carry a NLP. That's absurd. Don't put words in my mouth.

Thing is, in your very own example you cited a scenario where you were scum and got bored so decided to pick apart my NLP for something entertaining to do: push me to a lynch. The key factor in that example is that you were scum and were bored. Why would anyone spend time picking apart my NLP when they could instead be scumhunting? The answer, is of course, that they are scum. You're picking apart my NLP right now. Nobody is contesting you. Half the town is absent in this game, only poking their heads in just so they don't get booted for lurking. Which results in what? A bored scum team that feels they can get away with anything.

I'm starting to seriously doubt you are town.

In fact, a scum team of 15377 and felbatista kinda makes sense. Fel earlier said he was convinced one of story/15377 was scum. Those types of statements (being sure one of 2 players is scum), in my experience, usually come from a scum player who pairs up one of their allies with a towny to simultaneously chase a town victim while putting some distance between his ally and he for fear of one of them getting lynched later.

Oh hey look, here's your proporting that your words have more weight because of an NLP. Guess I didn't put those words in your mouth after all. And you've crutched on having an NLP numerous times in this game, as exampled above, so you can save the "I'm not pushing my NLP" bull as well.

The problem with asserting that I'm trying to do the same thing in this game is that I know what you're withholding, and I believe you know that as well. If I were really trying to swing a lynch on you, as you seem to claim, I'd simply break the bank wide open and let you flounder. But I'm not doing that. I'm not even attacking your NLP. I'm simply pointing out that town should be weary of your claims because we don't have all the information on that matter. This is common game sense and you cannot argue with that without trying to crutch yourself up with your NLP again. What I have argued is that town should first and foremost be striving to achieve it's stated win con. Again, you have no valid argument against this that doesn't require blind faith in you and your NLP. This does not constitute being vehemently against you. As I've stated, by your logic, we can lynch until day 5 and then consider the option to no lynch into day 6 to achieve the same effect you've described. You continue to ignore this because you've established a grand plan and anybody that argues against it is most definitely scum. Well I've pointed out the reasons nobody should be for it, reasons you haven't been able to refute at all. You've simply side stepped into arguing why I must be scum because I'm not following you around like a lost puppy. Fel is right. You are being over defensive.

With that said, I do not think you're scum trying to actively trick the town. I think you've set your mind to what you want to see happen and town be damned if you don't get your way. I do not place faith in that your plan is fully thought through though. There is too much assumption on your part and too much you cannot divulge to actually give town a reason to trust you.

The bolded part is what I was asking for. Though why go on about finding holes in Zinger's NLP if you don't believe he's scum trying to trick town?


@Zinger: We can spend today looking for scum and if no suitable candidate is found we can always No Lynch.



Pariah's profile says he was on today and squinty's doesn't say the last time he's logged in. Neither has posted except for their last post in this thread. Still waiting on their suspects