If you had targeted anyone but yourself n1 then we could have asked your target if they also got the flavor text. For everyone else it is your word against his.

I fully believe 15377 did get some extra text about being cold. Because I got the similar text when I targeted him last night. It said something to the effect of he appeared cold. I also know his character is a specialized magic wielder. Hopefully that is vague enough to prove I am telling the truth without giving out too much. My N1 target was Zinger, and I know who his character is as well.

I got a flavor message because I was blocked. It explains why I had no actions last night. Targeting yourself, however, is either really poorly thought through or an outright lie. To explain further, your role as claimed offers protection at the cost of that player's role not functioning. Targeting yourself creates a paradox. If you try to resolve it, when the secondary clause triggers it shuts off the whole role to begin with, offering no protection or blocking of the role. But if the role isn't blocked then it goes back into trying to apply the role and repeats indefinitely. Design wise, it's unlikely that your role was allowed to interact with you to avoid the matter altogether. So targeting yourself would be akin to sending in a no target and would result in you getting no flavor or protection.

Conversely if it's simply a lie, it's more of a matter of you having to pick a target that can't contradict your claim. This leaves you with either targeting yourself or targeting Neo, as you can't claim any of the other dead players and third party scum wouldn't be able to fake the matter with the information you tried to get me to provide earlier. Claiming Neo means you have to rationalize you targeting scum but failing to stop a nk. Doable but sticky. Simply claiming yourself skirts all matters of rationalizing and worrying about contradiction, however.

This, combined with what I feel is a questionable save last night, combined with the questionable death of Lilan the first night, combined with the insane amount of buddying you did off of Neo yesterday in trying to get the guy who has claimed he knows the key to a town auto win lynched spells either the greatest, and I do mean greatest, mafia coincidental set up of all time or you're simply mafia. I choose to believe it's the simple answer. Given we nailed scum Neo yesterday, we have space to play with today. Best to end the questions now, me thinks.

There is such a thing called order of operations, you know.
I was specifically told that I am capable of targeting myself by Scarlet. I have no reason to doubt that it would work.

Well, gee, how about you ask the rest of the group to see who else got the flavor text then?
Or do you believe that I happened to have not blocked anyone N1?
Volunteers? Anyone want to prove Numbers right by saying you were targeted by me N1?

The simpler, simpler answer here is that I am perfectly capable of and did target myself N1.
Which also leads to the freaking fact that I can only target the same person once this game!
WHICH IS WHY I DIDN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT MY ABILITY.

Dude. I outed myself as the protective role D1. I was obviously going to protect myself if I'm capable.

Order of operations applies in setting the order in which things happen. The roleblocker role negates things from happening. It negating itself is what creates the paradox. No amount of order of operations is going to change that. At best you roleblock yourself and your role simply doesn't do anything and the chain is called immediately to avoid pointless repetition. In this scenario you can target yourself, but the result would be the same as not targeting anybody at all.

As for talking about your restriction, if you even have one, that's just your bad. If you say nothing about it, you can bluff your way through the game like you have no restriction. This is what I was talking about earlier by saying that claiming a restriction at this point is either just helping the mafia or a last ditch effort not to have to claim a target, because if you say nothing about it, then nobody knows that they can circumvent your role. I have personally seen docs restricted to not being able to protect the same player on consecutive nights carry an outted cop through multiple kill attempts by simply portraying the doc as a never ending source of protection for the cop. Granted this player wasn't outted as the doc yet, but that doesn't really matter because it's about what people think you can do, not what you actually can do that matters. But the fact that you bring up this restriction without anybody even prompting you about it just further muddies the waters surrounding you.

Go ahead with your terrible logic. Until you have someone who tells you they've been blocked by me N1, though, you theory makes 0 sense.

And thank you so much with the 0 prompting!
Any idiot can figure out that in any reasonable game, a protective role capable of protecting itself can't protect itself forever.

I must be an idiot. I wouldn't have expected a restriction on a protective role. The source I found on jailkeeper also states that may be allowed to self target, but didn't suggest a restriction.

I suspect that you did self targe N1t, but maybe to save yourself from a vig/sk NK. Thus you know no one is going to come out and say you targeted them.

I never said you targeted anybody N1. In fact I said you were limited to claiming yourself or Neo as anybody else would have proof that you targeted them by the flavor post they would have gotten from the mod, which was the whole point in asking for your target. You couldn't claim Niklor since he was dead before N1. You couldn't claim Lilan or Garren either, because they died N1 and claiming to target them wouldn't have jived with their deaths. The only other dead player is Neo. So you could claim Neo, you could claim yourself, or if I had given you the flavor information that you fished for earlier in the day and were scum, you could have the third scum claim with a similar story to what I gave out (but I refused you this information, eliminating this possibility).

As for your prompting comment, I asked you for a name. That's all you were prompted for. Nobody asked for additional role information. Just a name. In essence I asked you for a nickel, and you shoved a c-note in my hand then were pissed off at me cuz you were broke. And a doc that can protect itself forever is essentially just a bulletproof player. Are you trying to assert that a bulletproof player is auto game over for anybody facing it?

A bulletproof player is op in the average set-up. I haven't seen anything wildly outside of average in this game, thus far.
I'd tell you to go die, but all rage aside, you aren't one of my scumspects. I'm more suspicious of the jump-in neo votes from yesterDay.
I formally drop Zinger as a scumspect. D6 auto win actually kinda make sense given flavor. And I suspect something about something that makes him town.
Also look at se_Tiny. If I remember correctly, role cops are predominantly a mafia role.

If I die while I'm gone, every one else, good luck.
Numbers... I really hope you're scum just because then you'd have a good reason for doing this.
But if it turns out you aren't (and you likely aren't), don't expect a protect the next time around, no matter how likely for you to be the target.

I'll be in Japan next time I see you all.
See ya around~

Well, a lot has happened today, and I just got home from work. I'll try and chime in in the next day or so, but today Season 1 of Diablo 3 ended. I'll be playing that with my wife tonight, as well as organizing my stash.

~SE++

No, they aren't. Bulletproof is only slightly better than being vanilla because you can draw as much scum heat as you want without worry about repercussion. However, scum doesn't have to kill everybody so they don't really give a **** if you're bulletproof, they just kill around you. It's, at best, a minor inconvenience.

As I said before, there is too much unclarity around you. Everything against you is circumstantial and possibly coincidental, but there comes a point when there's just too much of that to ignore, and given we've bought ourselves some breathing room with the Neo lynch, the best course of action is to seek clarity at this point.

Actually, 15377, we haven't bought a whole ton of breathing room. To clarify, I fully believe storyteller is likely scum, BUT, if we are wrong that potentially threatens our ability to reach Day 6 and auto win.

Whereas if we No Lynch, we get there guaranteed.

Why are you suggesting we take a course of action that goes against our guaranteed win for a chance win, EVEN IF that chance win is likely to flip scum?

Just wondering...not attacking you...cuz otherwise I totally agree with your mentality.

Because the chance win is not achieving the town win con, doing that is a guaranteed win. Banking on a Day 6 auto win is taking a chance. Not to say I think you're lying about the matter, but there's nothing to say that it isn't intended for you to be mislead in this matter. As I said at the end of the last day, I do not and will not be supporting a no lynch plan over striving to simply meet the town win con, nor do I think any other town save maybe yourself should. I exclude you because you have cards we are not privy to, so I will not begrudge you for taking the course of action you see as best, but I must do the same with the hard information I have available to me.

I'm not going for NL because my win con is not "You win the game if Town reaches day 6 without losing" or whatever. It is "You win the game when all Mallet-aligned players are dead."

I suppose that's fair.

I just see it as being a little on the riskier side. But then again, as you say, you aren't playing this card game with my hand.

Actually, NL into oblivion just because someone I have no reason to trust said I should seems to be far more riskier.

Oh hey guys I'm still here. Sorry, I was in the hospital.

So looks like it's time to direct some traffic.

To everybody saying they don't support a no lynch, I want to see some posts on who you suspect and some votes thrown.
To anybody saying they don't want to see a no lynch end the day early (*cough*Tiny*cough*), I want to see some suspect posts from you as well.
To anybody that hasn't posted today, please catch up as soon as possible and do one of the above.

I am in the camp of favouring a No Lynch.

I suspect the following people to varying degrees of potentially being scum:
storyteller - almost every post has a scumtell, reeeeeeeeks of scuminess
popularpariah - buddied up with known scum Neo on day 1, been absent since
15377 - more then likely town, however one post in particular has made me doubt (which post I am keeping to myself for reasons), which is what landed you on this list

Got internet earlier than expected (thank PocketWifi), a page hasn't passed since my last post, and I haven't been lynched yet.
Activity must be dismal.

I'm just poking my head in to say that I won't be posting much else in this thread since I apparently have 0 headway of making you (numbers, zinger, and fel) see sense.
The only way to make you start seeing sense would be to have you see me flip town, and seeing as you have every intention of making that happen, I have no more to add.