On 2, I think you interpreted the word 'stole' as a control changing effect, but I believe the poster just used that word to refer to the act of taking a creature from another player's graveyard (for instance, with Beacon of Unrest). It seemed to be intended as a variation on the scenario in the preceding paragraph.
If Player B plays Beacon of Unrest targeting a creature card from player C's graveyard, and then some time later player B is eliminated from the game while that creature is still on the battlefield under player B's control, it is exiled.
On 2, I think you interpreted the word 'stole' as a control changing effect, but I believe the poster just used that word to refer to the act of taking a creature from another player's graveyard (for instance, with Beacon of Unrest). It seemed to be intended as a variation on the scenario in the preceding paragraph.
If Player B plays Beacon of Unrest targeting a creature card from player C's graveyard, and then some time later player B is eliminated from the game while that creature is still on the battlefield under player B's control, it is exiled.
Ok great the stole word could be confuse but I try to explain exactly as you said, so if the creature dies it goes to the owner graveyard, but, if the player is eliminated from the game and the creature is still on the battlefield and under control of a player other than it's owner it is exiled, but which is the rule to support this?
800.4a When a player leaves the game, all objects (see rule 109) owned by that player leave the game and any effects which give that player control of any objects or players end. Then, if that player controlled any objects on the stack not represented by cards, those objects cease to exist. Then, if there are any objects still controlled by that player, those objects are exiled. This is not a state-based action. It happens as soon as the player leaves the game. If the player who left the game had priority at the time he or she left, priority passes to the next player in turn order who’s still in the game.
Examples
Example: Alex casts Mind Control, an Aura that reads, “You control enchanted creature,” on Bianca’s Assault Griffin. If Alex leaves the game, so does Mind Control, and Assault Griffin reverts to Bianca’s control. If, instead, Bianca leaves the game, so does Assault Griffin, and Mind Control is put into Alex’s graveyard. Example: Alex casts Act of Treason, which reads, in part, “Gain control of target creature until end of turn,” targeting Bianca’s Runeclaw Bears. If Alex leaves the game, Act of Treason’s change-of-control effect ends and Runeclaw Bears reverts to Bianca’s control. Example: Alex casts Bribery, which reads, “Search target opponent’s library for a creature card and put that card onto the battlefield under your control. Then that player shuffles his or her library,” targeting Bianca. Alex puts Serra Angel onto the battlefield from Bianca’s library. If Bianca leaves the game, Serra Angel also leaves the game. If, instead, Alex leaves the game, Serra Angel is exiled. Example: Alex controls Genesis Chamber, which reads, “Whenever a nontoken creature enters the battlefield, if Genesis Chamber is untapped, that creature’s controller puts a 1/1 colorless Myr artifact creature token onto the battlefield.” If Alex leaves the game, all such Myr tokens that entered the battlefield under Alex’s control leave the game, and all such Myr tokens that entered the battlefield under any other player’s control remain in the game.
The Bribery example follows the same idea as your scenario.
Joined: Oct 17, 2013 Posts: 3486
Preferred Pronoun Set: He
Dark Deal works about as well as one could possible hope with Dredge yes? You can dredge the stuff you discarded from your hand, and if you hit more dredgers with one draw you can use them to dredge for the rest as well?
And so people say to me, "How do I know if a word is real?" You know, anyone who's read a children's book knows that love makes things real. If you love a word, use it! That makes it real. Being in the dictionary is an artificial distinction; it doesn't make the word any more real than any other word. If you love a word, it becomes real. --Erin McKean, Redefining the Dictionary
how i think the stack would look like(is this correct?): gods willing ascendancy trigger +1/+1 prowess trigger on seeker +1/+1 wild slash
questions: a) will the seeker of the way trigger the wild slash ferocious ability? b) will the x/2 creature die anyway due to the wild slash ferocious ability?
thanks =), i've updated my post with your answer just so people doesn't have to search for it (even if it's just below). maybe this can be a standard in this "rule questions" thread.
Joined: Jun 04, 2014 Posts: 15599 Location: Freedom
Preferred Pronoun Set: they
one additional thing to note: Wild Slash does not have a triggered ability. it simply has a conditional effect. when it resolves, it will check whether that condition is met, and if it is it will apply it. no triggers are involved.
Joined: Oct 17, 2013 Posts: 3486
Preferred Pronoun Set: He
I've been testing my dredge deck, and I played against two (probably) different storm players who tried to game the rules. This first said that Pyromancer's Ascension will copy the spell that puts the second counter on it (citing a ChannelFireball video, which I went ahead and watched afterwords, that never happened). The second said that Past in Flames gave spells cast after Past in Flames resolved flashback, claiming they looked it up to double check, and calling me a "sore looser" when I linked the gatherer ruling.
Makes me sad when people don't want to learn to play their decks correctly. I wasn't trying to be mean or rules lawyer my way into a win, but if you are going to practice Storm you should practice Storm, not magical christmasland storm.
Joined: Jun 04, 2014 Posts: 15599 Location: Freedom
Preferred Pronoun Set: they
I want to clarify the interaction between bloodshed fever and mogg flunkies. (or any similar cards.) assuming I have other creatures I can also attack with, what am I forced to do come combat if I have Flunkies wearing Fever?
my guess is that I'm forced to attack with both Flunkies and something else. this is an attack that satisfies more requirements without violating any restrictions, and is thus what I have to do. on the other hand it's weird that Fever can force a thing it's not on to attack.
the other interpretation I can think of say that "must attack" requirements can be ignored if there's a cost to attacking, like with ghostly prison. thus, I can attack with nothing, but if I attack with anything Flunkies has to as well. however, as part of the point of the Prison interaction is that the game doesn't know if I can pay the cost, this seems to be a different scenario.
Yeah, you have to do whatever fulfills the most requirements, so a Bloodshed Fever on a Mogg Flunkies can force another creature to attack. Here's the rule (from the "Declare Attackers Step" section).
Quote:
508.1d The active player checks each creature he or she controls to see whether it’s affected by any requirements (effects that say a creature must attack, or that it must attack if some condition is met). If the number of requirements that are being obeyed is fewer than the maximum possible number of requirements that could be obeyed without disobeying any restrictions, the declaration of attackers is illegal. If a creature can’t attack unless a player pays a cost, that player is not required to pay that cost, even if attacking with that creature would increase the number of requirements being obeyed. Example: A player controls two creatures: one that “attacks if able” and one with no abilities. An effect states “No more than one creature can attack each turn.” The only legal attack is for just the creature that “attacks if able” to attack. It’s illegal to attack with the other creature, attack with both, or attack with neither.
that's what I thought, just wasn't sure if attacking with the other thing fell under the blanket of "costs"
Yeah, I ran out of time to elaborate more on that. As far as I can tell, the rules label Mogg Flunkies' ability as a restriction, not a cost. There's a fine line between the two, but rule 508.1d definitely treats them differently.
I just slipped multiple copies of Hardened Scales in a new deck, and I want to make sure I'm not short-changing myself.
When I use an effect that triggers Hardened Scales, do all of the copies trigger simultaneously, or one at a time? If the latter, does one Hardened Scales trigger another?
Example: I have 2 copies and a creature with an outlast ability (say, Herald of Anafenza). I outlast the Herald, and it adds a counter. How many extra counters does this create? Two? Or does one copy trigger the other, and I get... well, I can envision a recursive call that would run until I run out of counters.
I just slipped multiple copies of Hardened Scales in a new deck, and I want to make sure I'm not short-changing myself.
When I use an effect that triggers Hardened Scales, do all of the copies trigger simultaneously, or one at a time? If the latter, does one Hardened Scales trigger another?
Example: I have 2 copies and a creature with an outlast ability (say, Herald of Anafenza). I outlast the Herald, and it adds a counter. How many extra counters does this create? Two? Or does one copy trigger the other, and I get... well, I can envision a recursive call that would run until I run out of counters.
Scales isn't a trigger, it's what's called a replacement effect. each replacement effect can only modify a given event once. while technically they function one at a time, once one has added an extra counter it doesn't care what the others do. in your example, your Herald will get 3 counters total.
Magic uses its wordings very precisely: if an ability starts with "when", "whenever", or "at", it's a trigger and uses the stack as normal. if it starts with "if", however, it's a replacement effect and functions as described above.
Joined: Jan 08, 2014 Posts: 4662 Location: Depends on the Day
I need a bit of clarification. I think I know how it works, but I just want to make sure.
M opponent has Chronatog in play and activate's it's ability, does stuff, then passes. On my turn I cast Mayor of Avabruck. On my "extra" turn does Mayor transform?
I need a bit of clarification. I think I know how it works, but I just want to make sure.
M opponent has Chronatog in play and activate's it's ability, does stuff, then passes. On my turn I cast Mayor of Avabruck. On my "extra" turn does Mayor transform?
No. The skipped turn never happens, so on your extra turn, Mayor of Avabruck's ability sees "last turn" as the turn you cast Mayor of Avabruck.
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