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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:47 am 
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This is my Azorius deck, not too original but solid (16W/5L at now):

[manapie 90 w u -b -r -g][/manapie]

Frozen Winds v1.0

A deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (25 :creature: , 11 :instant: , 24 :land:)

Cost 6 cards
■■■
Cloudfin Raptor0/1
■■■
Triton Shorestalker1/1
Cost 8 cards
■■■
Leonin Snarecaster2/1
■■
Military Intelligence
■■■
Voyage's End
Cost 9 cards
■■■
Banisher Priest2/2
Brimaz, King of Oreskos3/4
■■
Chasm Skulker1/1
■■■
Frost Lynx2/2
Cost 6 cards
■■
Mausoleum Guard2/2
■■■
Skymark Roc3/3
Bident of Thassa
Cost 5 cards
Baneslayer Angel5/5
■■■■
Angelic Edict
■■
Switcheroo
Cost 2 cards
Roil Elemental3/2
■■■
Triplicate Spirits
Land24 cards
■■■■
Azorius Guildgate
10
Island
10
Plains


It's very straightforward so it doesn't need any clarification: stop/slow the opponent and switch/steal his big drop with Switcheroo/Roil Elemental, mantaining a huge card advantage due to Military Intelligence/Bident of Thassa. Skymarc Roc is performing very very well in this type of deck so 3x is mandatory.


EDIT: 11/01/2015 --> 24W/6L


Last edited by fosforo on Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:36 am 
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I'm always of the school of "go big, or go home". In that regard, why do you have so many sets of cards that are less than the maximum allowed? Surely you want to draw them as often as possible? If not, then why are they there?

Main case in point - you have two 5 mana control spells, and two of each. Now how often do you draw a Switcheroo and just wish you could exile the creature instead? Or draw an Edict and wish you could steal it? Why not the max of the one that works best? I could understand if you had ways of tutoring or recurring the spells, but without them it seems you're introducing too much of an element of luck there instead of planning ahead.

It seems a little indecisive, and I feel you could easily improve the build by tightening up issues like this.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:45 am 
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I agree, it seems like you're unsure of your choices and are waffling a little bit.

I think if you want to beat down, then you should be play all eight Raptors/Shorestalkers. Then you should be playing all three Military Intelligence because it's really good in a deck like this.

As far as removal goes, I think I'd rather play the tempo game with bounce spells than play something like Banisher Priest. If you're doing a lot of flying/unblockable damage then a simple Vapor Snag is often enough to win the game and the cheaper price tag lets you play removal and advance your board on the same turn.

I'd also like to see Pestermite over Frost Lynx because the instant speed means the effects are very similar but he has upside because he can untap things like Baneslayer for surprise blocks. The fact that he has evasion means he helps your beatdown plan, too.

Also, I really hate Roil Elemental. Despise it. Loathe it. It's a six-drop that dies to Shock and opens you up to blowouts, don't play it.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:23 am 
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I'm always of the school of "go big, or go home". In that regard, why do you have so many sets of cards that are less than the maximum allowed? Surely you want to draw them as often as possible? If not, then why are they there?

Main case in point - you have two 5 mana control spells, and two of each. Now how often do you draw a Switcheroo and just wish you could exile the creature instead? Or draw an Edict and wish you could steal it? Why not the max of the one that works best? I could understand if you had ways of tutoring or recurring the spells, but without them it seems you're introducing too much of an element of luck there instead of planning ahead.

It seems a little indecisive, and I feel you could easily improve the build by tightening up issues like this.


About 2 set of 2x5 different mana control spells, they differ a bit in prerecondition: the blue one needs 1 of my creature ready for the switch and therefore my creature has to be little/inoffensive; the white one is more direct and it hasn't any tradeoff to pay. With both spells, in my opinion I have more versatility without "diluiting" the main purpose of this deck, hence to get rid of dangerous creature that supposedly my opponent can cast in 5th/6th turn.

Therefore Switcheroo is uncommon, so I have only 3x of it and for me 3x is not enough, so in very first version of this build I simply added 1xAngel Edict to raise the chance to have at least 1 powerful control spell in the right situation; in a second moment I found that 2xSwitcheroo/2xAngel Edict could give me a more balanced mix.

Anyway thanks for your feedback, I'll try to avoid "card dispersion" ad much as possibile in the next version of this deck that I'm tweaking.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:28 am 
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There's also a little confusion for me as to why you want to tap things down, or make creatures unable to block. Most of your deck is evasive, apart from the Snarecasters and Lynxes, so they're kind of making work only for themselves. Why not just replace them with fliers? Then you have a much more aggressive deck, and don't need to steal creatures - just avoid them or swarm them.

The singleton Triplicate Spirits is odd too. You don't have much Convoke equity, and if all you'll ever get is 3 1/1s for 6 mana, why not just add Squadron Hawks? They'll at least thin out the deck and can be paid for in installments.

With this new focus on evasion, I'd remove your ground troops who will just get blocked. The Skulkers can stay as they grow well with the draw and can generate more draw if split, but Brimaz and the Banishers will just get blocked endlessly. As you have access to Blue, I'd simply just counter instead. And with this new focus on speed, I'd cut a land and turn the Edicts into Reprisals. That way you can also split your own Skulker if needed.

I'd go;

-3 Leonin Snarecaster
+1 Cloudfin Raptor
+1 Triton Shorestalker

Don't try to tap blockers once, simply bypass them constantly.

-3 Frost Lynx
+4 Pestermite

As above, but with the ability to tap too.

-3 Voyage's End
+4 Vapor Snag

Cheaper, faster and more damaging bounce.

-3 Banisher Priest
+3 Dissolve

Proactive, permanent removal rather than reactive, weak removal.

-2 Switcheroo
-2 Angelic Edict
+3 Reprisal

Cheaper, faster removal than can also combo with your Skulker.

-2 Mausoleum Guard
-1 Triplicate Spirits
+4 Squadron Hawk

Cheaper, faster 1/1 fliers rather than having to jump through hoops for them.

-1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
-1 Roil Elemental
-1 Land
+1 Military Intelligence
+1 Bident of Thassa

Removing element that are no longer supported, and increasing the ones that now help your deck a lot more.

---

I know it may seem like I've changed a lot, but I'm really just subbing like-for-like in a lot of cases, and giving straight upgrades for what you're trying to do. The only major change is removing the stealing aspect, but I feel this is the wrong deck for that as this is more an aggro build, while that's a defensive/control strategy in my book.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:31 am 
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I pretty much agree with everything Steve suggested with the exception of Reprisal at three copies. The card is okay but not great and can be dead. I don't mind one copy, maaaaaybe two, but I think I'd rather just play Voyage's End in those slots or maybe some more creatures.

Mentor of the Meek is probably too slow but is also a consideration.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:39 am 
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Reprisal is marginal - I just have a perverse like for the card.

That said, people tend not to use much in the way of fliers online other than large, bomby ones in my experience (Demons, Angels, etc). If your deck is mainly evasive, and you want removal simply to kill the only things that can block you (large fliers) Reprisal is good. Everything else bar Guard Gomazoas you can usually ignore and outrace.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:05 am 
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I would swap out the Reprisals for Switcheroos.. but other than that, it looks like pretty solid stuff there Steve.

With that much evasive damage, Switcheroo could be a total blowout card. Even if you trade the opponent something valuable of yours, you can always bounce it back to your hand.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:33 am 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
I agree, it seems like you're unsure of your choices and are waffling a little bit.

I think if you want to beat down, then you should be play all eight Raptors/Shorestalkers. Then you should be playing all three Military Intelligence because it's really good in a deck like this.

As far as removal goes, I think I'd rather play the tempo game with bounce spells than play something like Banisher Priest. If you're doing a lot of flying/unblockable damage then a simple Vapor Snag is often enough to win the game and the cheaper price tag lets you play removal and advance your board on the same turn.

I'd also like to see Pestermite over Frost Lynx because the instant speed means the effects are very similar but he has upside because he can untap things like Baneslayer for surprise blocks. The fact that he has evasion means he helps your beatdown plan, too.

Also, I really hate Roil Elemental. Despise it. Loathe it. It's a six-drop that dies to Shock and opens you up to blowouts, don't play it.


Very interesting points Hakemm, I can only say that I deliberately make a mixed deck that in my plan would be a control deck with a touch of beatdown effect, altough it seems illogical but for now it works quite well.

About Pestermite, I have prefered Frost Lynx because its effect is more durable but Pestermite would be a great addiction for this deck, so I try to make a room for it.

About Vapor's Snag vs Voyage's end, the SCRY ability proved to be crucial in this deck, so I prefer to mantain it albeit more expensive.

I'd like to test this deck against very aggressive ones but for now I've faced only mid-range/other control/lifegain ones with very good results/without big defeat so I'm not sure that this deck can deal with every type of opponent deck so I'll keep in count your suggestions, thanks


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:36 am 
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There's also a little confusion for me as to why you want to tap things down, or make creatures unable to block. Most of your deck is evasive, apart from the Snarecasters and Lynxes, so they're kind of making work only for themselves. Why not just replace them with fliers? Then you have a much more aggressive deck, and don't need to steal creatures - just avoid them or swarm them.

The singleton Triplicate Spirits is odd too. You don't have much Convoke equity, and if all you'll ever get is 3 1/1s for 6 mana, why not just add Squadron Hawks? They'll at least thin out the deck and can be paid for in installments.

With this new focus on evasion, I'd remove your ground troops who will just get blocked. The Skulkers can stay as they grow well with the draw and can generate more draw if split, but Brimaz and the Banishers will just get blocked endlessly. As you have access to Blue, I'd simply just counter instead. And with this new focus on speed, I'd cut a land and turn the Edicts into Reprisals. That way you can also split your own Skulker if needed.

I'd go;

-3 Leonin Snarecaster
+1 Cloudfin Raptor
+1 Triton Shorestalker

Don't try to tap blockers once, simply bypass them constantly.

-3 Frost Lynx
+4 Pestermite

As above, but with the ability to tap too.

-3 Voyage's End
+4 Vapor Snag

Cheaper, faster and more damaging bounce.

-3 Banisher Priest
+3 Dissolve

Proactive, permanent removal rather than reactive, weak removal.

-2 Switcheroo
-2 Angelic Edict
+3 Reprisal

Cheaper, faster removal than can also combo with your Skulker.

-2 Mausoleum Guard
-1 Triplicate Spirits
+4 Squadron Hawk

Cheaper, faster 1/1 fliers rather than having to jump through hoops for them.

-1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
-1 Roil Elemental
-1 Land
+1 Military Intelligence
+1 Bident of Thassa

Removing element that are no longer supported, and increasing the ones that now help your deck a lot more.

---

I know it may seem like I've changed a lot, but I'm really just subbing like-for-like in a lot of cases, and giving straight upgrades for what you're trying to do. The only major change is removing the stealing aspect, but I feel this is the wrong deck for that as this is more an aggro build, while that's a defensive/control strategy in my book.



Thanks a lot for this build, I'll try it a soon as possible but I love Switcheroo (both card and image) so probably I mantain it for Reprisal. I'll keep you inform on results. thanks


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:37 pm 
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Monk1410 wrote:
Thanks for testing Hakeem. The mystic and amulet have been good in the few games I have played. Between that and mentor we can grind out games where things aren't quite going to plan. Here is the updated list

[manapie 90 w u -b -r -g][/manapie]

UW artifacts

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (19 :creature: , 17 :instant: , 24 :land:)

Cost 1 card
■■
Elixir of Immortality
Cost 10 cards
■■■■
Etherium Sculptor1/2
■■
Stoneforge Mystic1/2
■■■■
Courier's Capsule
Cost 9 cards
Brimaz, King of Oreskos3/4
■■■
Esperzoa4/3
■■
Mentor of the Meek2/2
■■■
Darksteel Ingot
Cost 6 cards
■■■■
Sanctum Gargoyle2/3
Avarice Amulet
Bident of Thassa
Cost 4 cards
Baneslayer Angel5/5
■■■
Angelic Edict
Cost 6 cards
■■
Sharding Sphinx4/4
■■
Obelisk of Alara
■■
Planar Cleansing
Land24 cards
■■■
Arcane Sanctum
■■■■
Azorius Guildgate
■■■
Seaside Citadel
8
Island
8
Plains


I am curious to know the state of this build after testing Hakeems recommendation of guard gamoza over sigiled paladin?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:46 pm 
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The deck played fine, it was pretty powerful. I didn't really enjoy playing it, though, it was just slow to set up and get going.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:01 pm 
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That is how I felt though it can be fun some times with all the little options. I was more curious about Monks decision with the aforementioned.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:37 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
The deck played fine, it was pretty powerful. I didn't really enjoy playing it, though, it was just slow to set up and get going.


Your inner Spike can't stand that can it? ; )

If it can't win by turn 5.. it sucks!!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:42 pm 
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Control is my favorite archetype, I like the long games. :)

This deck just felt like it wasn't doing anything at all and then all of a sudden it just won. I can't put my finger on it but it wasn't my style. I think it's a combo deck of sorts.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:24 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
Control is my favorite archetype, I like the long games. :)

This deck just felt like it wasn't doing anything at all and then all of a sudden it just won. I can't put my finger on it but it wasn't my style. I think it's a combo deck of sorts.


This deck kinda feels like it clunks along with several little intertwined trinkets to use. I guess kinda suiting for an 'artifact' deck.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:31 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
Here is the list to which I was alluding:

4 x Azorius Guildgate
11 x Island
10 x Plains

4 x Cloudshift

4 x Think Twice
4 x Voyage's End
3 x Wall of Omens

3 x Guard Gomozoa
3 x Dissolve
2 x Mentor of the Meek

4 x Archaeomancer
2 x Talrand, Sky Summoner

1 x Baneslayer Angel
1 x Time Warp

2 x Planar Cleansing

1 x Sphinx-Bone Wand

1 x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth


There's so much synergy in this deck that it's unreal. The core of the deck is the Archaeomancer plus Cloudshift combo which really lets you abuse Talrand and the Wand.

Don't be afraid to Cloudshift your Walls early because Archaeomancer gets them back, and shifting a Wall with Mentor in play is a two-mana instant-speed Divination. I'm not going to list all the interactions and synergies, but trust me you'll learn them as you play the deck. It's really powerful and a lot of fun.

If you want the original mobius version then sub out the playset of Voyage's End for Brimaz, King of Oreskos and three copies of Reprisal; I don't recommend it though, because Reprisal is a lategame card and is often dead in hand.


Necro!

Why play 4x Archaeomancer? Tbh you only need them late in the game, shouldn't 2 be enough?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:36 pm 
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Because you can play Cloudshift early and liberally on your Wall of Omens and get it back on T4. This deck also has Mentor of the Meek as a draw engine, so flickering anything can draw you cards. You really just want to stall and draw into the combo then go off, so you really need all four.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:52 pm 
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I played it a bit ages Ago, the 1st time you posted it and was really funny. I think it's still one od the best combo decks available. I just played a couple of games and people get very frustrated when a mentor and bone-Wand are on board and I keep cloudshifting the Archaeomancer ;)

Btw. I play the mobius edition with Brimaz and 3x Reprisal.

Ps. What happened to Mobius? He constructed marvellous decks!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:18 pm 
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He got hit with the BanHammer. He's still on the XBone, I see him on my friends list, but I haven't spoken to him in quite some time. I don't think he's very interested in Magic right now, for whatever reason.

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