We deff didn't forget of that option and that was precisely why I mentioned it works nice in hakeems build with all the big creatures.

So how did it play out for you?

The build skeleton plays and feels right but it's just coming to a final configuration.

I could see Monk's suggestion of more draw with the Garruk's Packleader (or instead 1 copy of Hunter's Prowess to accelerate and fix your hand) but again I found Viscera Dragger and Graveborn Muse sufficient in Hakeem's Reckoning build so it should be adequate here. I could see adding the last Hellspark Elemental and dropping a Krenko's Command. Kathari Bomber does work and the deck needs some viable 3 drops but it's just a slow tempo play in comparison to a lot of the deck's low curve so this could be a good chopping point. Maybe go a different route and drop Goblin Rabblemaster for more Kathari Bombers since most of the deck isn't worth removal spells (everyone targets Rabblemaster immediately but very seldomly do folks target any of the unearthed or fodder which adds to the amount of pressure it creates. Kathari also has a better success rate of actually creating it's tokens over the Rabblemaster). Then there's the Resounding Thunder vs. Auger Spree consideration (I still think in terms of creature power on the board that Auger may be the way to go but having another late game response in Thunder is hard to pass). Maybe a mix of the two removal spells (2 Auger and 1 Thunder?)

Definitely some more testers of these ideas in different combinations would help iron out the wrinkles quicker

elk

Gonna put it together now, look at it in editor, test out some tweaks and see how it plays out.

First swaps I made were:

-3 augre +3 resounding
-2 fling +1undying +1 hellspark

Figured that I would like to capitalize on reentering effects.

After playing a couple rounds I thought it would be best to focus more on the reentering effects and warstorm. Here is where I have gone with it by capitalizing on what was working for me so far:



I actually decided to take this deck in a different direction. I'll be posting the new build after further testing.

In regards to Fling, I think it may be a mistake to remove since the devour creatures have no value if they are addressed. When you focus X cards into a creature (not to mention gearing the build towards that investment) with no return, it's just a loss waiting to happen. It's the same way with most bombs. If they can't answer it, they lose. If they can, then what do you have next? In most decks, it's just play the next bomb. Here we don't have those choices (making the overall build 'weaker') since we'd have to start over and invest again. In a unearth aspect, we're finite with our output and need ways to finish out games. With the devour, we need some sort of return on our investment. Outside of actual protection/disruption (which aren't in our color), fling is one of our only options to gain value/return. It's why I'm hoping the combination of Unearth/Devour can work. Using the unearth mechanic makes the value of fling less (and the value of devour greater) since we're 'tossing' the cards away already (meaning our investment is less) but that doesn't get rid of the additional costs to creating a devour bomb. It's why the Resounding Thunder has some good consideration since it will have late game presence when we could really need it.

I'm thinking the additional Hellspark Elemental is the correct move and could see trading a Krenko's Command for a Kathari Bomber since they're intended to be the same contribution yet the Kathari can have more value. I'm also going to throw in the Thunder and see how often I can cycle it. I'll test this out and let ya know.

With regards to your variant, I'd suggest going to Rakdos since Mycoloth is really the reason to splash green (Ground Assault is great but not worth the splash especially when you could toss in Auger and tighten up your mana).

elk

I'm thinking I should be viewing Warstom Surge as my overpriced Ground Assault and include both the Auger and Thunder from the suggestions before (it's been strong all night). I reduced Fling to 1 copy and tidied up the curve. Looking more like this:




With cycling, the deck has a possible 12 plays available at turn 2 so dropping down another -1 Krenko's Command for +1 Kathari could be viable.

elk

You have to play Sprouting Thrinax and Kresh in a devour shell, they're just too good not to. I also think that Undying Evil is a poor choice in a deck with devour because you can't save your big guys or your tokens.

I also think you need to play four Viashinos because you only need to eat one guy to make it a 4/4, which is on curve, so you definitely always want one and multiples shouldn't be too bad.

I want to see more token production here, you should definitely be playing four Krenko's Command and four Kathari Bombers.

I made an attempt at Jund Devour some time ago and it wasn't great, so I may try the archetype again.

Elk if you notice I ended up kinda stearing away from the devour theme a little more in the direction I went. Devour just doesn't feel solid enough here for my tastes. I didn't want to fully give up on it so I kept the thrashers That's why I tossed out the flings.

Hakeemypoo did you see the direction I took his build? The direction I went felt to play more consistently from my testing so far of the build.

I didn't, no.

If I were to play Devour now, I would play Naya instead of Jund. I tested Jund and it was okay, but Naya gives Selesnya Evangel, Raise the Alarm, and Triplicate Spirits. Oh, and Gods Willing which could potentially be the best card in the deck.

The best Devour creatures are the Viashino and Mycoloth so Naya isn't hurting there. I think modifying the Naya token deck with Viashino could definitely be Tier Two and maybe better. Gods Willing is one of the best cards in the format and no one plays it, it's criminal.

Losing black mana destroys the Unearth subtheme, but I think a token strategy with a Devour subtheme is just better.

But the unearth/warstorm combo feels really good when it works (which is why I went ham on that variant of this and only used the devour as more of a wincon combo with warstorm. Though I have been considering removing the vashino from my variant all together.

I currently have removed ONE vashino for 1 kresh as generally I don't feel I ever want too many vashinos to appear.

Everything feels good when it works. The question is how often does it work and why does it work. If it works because your opponent is bad then it doesn't really work.

Very true. It is consistent in randoms 1v1 which is generally what I build for as I mostly play 1v1 randoms.

Unearth feels really nasty often and the randos always seem to forget about it..

It sort of goes against the idea I was trying to make viable (Unearth/Devour). The build was intent to be Unearth early/mid game with a sprinkle of fodder. Then use Devour to take advantage of the Unearth/fodder to finish. The amount of tokens/fodder is the balancing point where we want just enough to have some additional targets to the Unearthed options but not so much that it's back into a Devour only focused build. As I was hoping above, I'd love to have some input on card quantities and/or suggestions to make this feasible.

I realize at this point that most build ideas have been explored in the card pool and it's unlikely that a top tier idea has been missed. So now it's looking for fun ideas that can actually work and making them as optimal as possible. I'm looking to make an Unearth/Devour shell that has some consistency in play and therefore a chance to win.

Kresh is another Ajani's Pridemate style card. They're great and big threats but it just seems like they grow and sit on board never getting through to the player. It's something that should be tested though. Sprouting Thrinax was overlooked specifically for it's forest requirement (green is just a splash here and wanted to keep the mana focused).


I agree and mentioned in my earlier posts that it's a nonbo in a handful of cases. The problem with Unearth is that there is no good targets for removal. Since my opponent then sits on all the removal they are likely to have, I was attempting to sustain several of the targets they do have. Warstorm is definitely an important win condition (as 2best took from the build) and undying has nice synergy with it. Undying also allows you to devour other targets you wouldn't normally and still keep them around (any undying target that is valid is pretty much something I'd like to keep). Lastly it was a fun desperation play I mentioned previously where you cast a devour card w/o targeting (i.e. 2/2 Viashino or 4/4 Mycoloth). Then chump block and undying or chump block undying/fling which gave you a nice threat to swing back. Not a good situation to be in but just another option for the cards. Regardless of those points, it could easily get chopped (as I've been talking about above, Fling has better synergy with the devour and unearth theme).


This has been tough since I go back to the balancing act mentioned earlier. Unearthed is a valid part of the Devour targeting which makes the cost higher when those cards are cast. This meant I was always happy to see 1 or 2 Viashinos but seledomly had valid targets for a third or more (or didn't need to cast the 3rd since the board state was already won/lost). Ideally Viashino was a 4/4 on curve but typically in this build it was played as a 6/6 on turn 6 (and in some pretty desperate cases a 4/4 ).

elk

Yeah I was trying 4 Vashino but feel devour isn't good enough here for 4. I dropped it to 3 and included kresh to make use of all the things dying. I tweaked the deck to focus more on aggressive playing and finishing with warstorms, Vashino, combo of the two, or Resounding. This feels far more consistent then the original runs I gave with your build when I ran it Elk. Though I think some more tweaking can be made.

so looks like 2best and I are zeroing in on the same build +/-

I took Hakeem's advice and pitched Undying (and Fling I still want to fit it in here to some degree....just not sure where yet), filled out the fodder and tossed in Kresh the Bloodbraided





no more tricks but it's improving in consistency.

elk

Go easy on me. First time deck building. I wanted to create a decent "sac others" deck. Let me know if I screwed the pooch or what changes I should/can make. Thanks!

I've built a couple of decks in this general vein and it looks good overall. I have to ask however what exactly is it that Satyr Wayfinder is doing for you in this deck? You don't really benefit for having creatures in your grave and you don't really have a high enough curve to need the quasi-ramp (though I guess self-sac decks really do need to hit that 3 cmc hump so I can get behind it).

You also might want to see if you can squeeze Mycoloth in there somewhere. I appreciate he would be at the very top of your mana curve but his ability to pump out tokens each and every turn gives you an endless supply of meat to throw into the grinder. You'd only need to eat 1 guy to get a 6/6 generating 2 tokens each turn.

General thought behind Satyr Wayfinder is the land ramp. You're right about running a sac deck needing high mana so that is where I thought he might help (I also threw that one Treasured Find in there to recover anything that he might grave dump). And I really really really wanted to run Mycoloth but I'm not sure where to cut or how he's screws my mana base. I guess I could dump one of the Sprouting Thrinax but I'm not sure.

You'll generally never want to cut the Sprouting Thrinax - if you're running a Jund deck there are few strategies they work against and in a token/sac deck they are king.

From your list maybe consider dropping a single Cultivate for Mycoloth. Even for both colour fixing and mana-ramp I can't see you needing more than x2 Satyr Wayfinder and x2 Cultivate to get together the lands you need to get things running. As for scewing up your mana he shouldn't be too hard to include - you are already running 6 'Forest/X' lands as is and will generally be wanting a forest in your opening hand to help set up the board for later.

One question I do need to ask however is are you married to Jund? The steal/sacrifice theme is essentially B/R with most of your G cards just being used to help set up the field. I'm not saying Jund can't be done by any means but it's worth at least considering running it as a Rakdos deck.

I took my Cycle Surge into a bit different direction and it is now a Rakdos aggro build with a steal/sac subtheme.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=4687&p=246726#p246726

You're right. I wasn't really married to Jund but I thought the mana ramp was a necessity for this style but after playtesting, I found that it just got in the way. So I posted a different version in the Rakdos forum. Thanks for the feedback.