I am not digging the whole Archaeomancer + Voyage's End thing to be honest with you.

If you wanted to go that route I personally think you would be better served by adjusting the mana a tiny bit to have just a few more Green and Black sources and replacing both of them with copies of Treasured Find. Does the same thing for you (the only difference is you don't get a 1/2 body) but also hits your Baneslayer when you need it. It also costs less overall and is easier to cast without having to completely tap out to do so.

Going heavier Black could open up the option to run Runescarred as well, like we talked about before.

Something to think about at least.

I don't like the more recent changes you made personally hakeem. I feel obliesk should still remain and I don't feel archeo or voyages are needed here.

I did expect you to eventually add resounding though.

I feel that the statement about counter magic and planar being at odds with eachother is another good reason to work back in the quickens. Too bad there are only 2 but still.. I feel I would rather have them than the voyage and archeo..

I have 2 quickens, the obliesk, and 4 resounding, while still having 2 edicts.

I dropped the voyage, archeo, one banefire, the titan, and the negates.

I don't know if it just me, but I just don't see Instant speed sweepers being a huge advantage in this format.

I mean, I could see where it could help in the Aggro matchups, being able to EoT sweep and not tap out to be able to counter their next play. That said, in most cases I think I would still rather just tap out to sweep them, and mop up concurrent plays with cheap instant speed removal (which in most cases is essentially the same thing) rather than trying to catch them with counterspells. Outside of some ETB/LTB effects getting through the end result is exactly the same, and the mana restrictions on removal tend to be a little more lenient than that of counterspells.

I think I personally would just run more removal rather than Quicken, although I think that is more of a preference thing. The fact that it cantrips by itself certainly makes it a viable options (and I certainly can see running it in place of removal in the hopes of cantriping into what you need).

I just don't think there are enough hasty/explosive plays in the current meta to really warrant going the instant speed sweeper+counter route when tapping out+removal can do the job just as well most of the time, and is often less of a burden on your mana base.

I don't see an instant sweeper as anything special either.. in fact, when playing control, it's pretty rare that my opponent drops more than 1 threat per turn except in the early game. When I play Unmemorable, Planar Cleansing is used to kill one bomb almost 100% of the time.. because I've been countering everything up until that point. It could just as easily be another removal spell.. or another Banefire type spell.. like Volcanic Geyser or whatever it's called. Planar Cleansing is even worse if you're planning on running any artifacts like Obelisk or Courier's Capsule.

I could see it being good vs a resolved Genesis Hydra.. but not much else.

Also.. Wall of Omens is an absolute stud in Unmemorable.

I'm still not wild about such a massive amount of land either. I wouldn't even think about running over 24.

Land count seems fine to me. I mean, most of the recent control builds that I have messed with only run 24, but they also all run at least 1-3 copies of Armillary Sphere and usually at least a couple copies of Traumatic Visions to fix and keep the land coming.

Running over 24 land in a control deck isn't a bad idea. Playing a draw-go control deck often greatly benefits from always being able to drop a land every turn. I have personally ran 28 land control decks in the past in paper.

Although to be honest, it is a little less of an issue in DotP because of free mulligan.

Curiosity got the better of me and I took Unmemorable out for a ride. That's two games and one hour I'll never get back. It did win, though.

Hey guys! Any tips on this Jeskai deck? It was inspired by Mobious' (where is he?) Azorius control.
So far I haven't lost with it, but I haven't ran into any good opponents either. It's a lot of fun, but I'm sure that it could use some tweaking.



Cards I consider:
Mentor of the Meek - with Cloudshift, Archaeomancer, Wall of Omens I'd get a lot of draw, but don't know if it's needed, I already have Think Twice and Wall of Omens + Cloudshift.
Sphinx-Bone Wand - expensive, I think that Guttersnipe does the role well
Bolt of Keranos - I ran it in a previous version instead of Inferno Titan and Stormbreath Dragon. More removal, Guttersnipe and Talrand, Sky Summoner triger. Was useful.
Charmbreaker Devils - recurrence, pump
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth - expensive but so stronk
Traumatic Visions / Negate / Nullify - for more defensive/counter playstyle that still triggers Guttersnipe and Talrand, Sky Summoner

Dunno if adding Inferno Titan and Stormbreath Dragon didn't change the plan of the deck a bit (from spell heavy), but they're just so strong that they can win the game by themselves.

Any tips welcome!

The deck looks solid, but I'm not sold on Time Warp, I think I'd rather have a 25th land because control decks missing land drops is bad. I'm also not sold on Brimaz in a control shell, I'd probably play the third Archaeomancer to go off a bit more reliably with Cloudshift. Brimaz is certainly powerful, though.

No Anger of the Gods is a bit strange, too, not sure if you can make room for it.

I didn't add Anger of the Gods and Planar Cleansing because it hurts me more often then helps.
Brimaz is just Brimaz. Doesn't fit, but is good for pressure and defense, same with Stormbreath Dragon[c] and [c]Inferno Titan.
Charmbreaker Devils might combo nice if I add more counterspells.

Time Warp has been nice, won me a game once, but usually it's just win more.

What do you think about adding 3 Guttersnipe to your Jeskai Deck? Or is the problem with tapping out too big? In a counter deck he does a lot of damage if you don't let anything stick to the board.

I can see not playing Cleansing and I didn't suggest it, but Anger seems like it would be good against the faster decks. It's just a really good meta card.

Guttersnipe is a decent wincon for control, I used to play him in my Izzet control deck but ultimately cut him for more spells. In that deck I play Talrand, Charmbreakers, and Kozilek but it's a permission-heavy deck.

Outside of the Cloudshift/Archaeomancer/Talrand engine, what is Cloudshift really doing for you here? Would you just be better off with actual counterspells instead?

Here is my Izzet control, just for reference: http://forum.nogoblinsallowed.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=4685&p=216212#p216212

I like that Izzet deck, will test it out. Dunno how I missed it. You should make a topic with all your decks so people can find them easier.

Cloudshift works as protection vs removal, stall (cloudshifting blockers), Guttersnipe trigger with Archaeomancer and additional card draw with Wall of Omens.

I also tested Sphinx-Bone Wandand Charmbreaker Devils with which Cloudshift + Archaeomancer was another wincon.

I know Cloudshift works that way, but so do counterspells like Negate and they have extra utility which is why I asked the question. Would you be better served by cutting Cloudshift for countermagic?

I think if you want to do Cloudshift+Archaeomancer then you need to do Cloudshift+Archaeomancer and focus on the combo. Otherwise, just play control with counterspells. Just my opinion, of course, but I did play a Jeskai combo deck that morphed into control and the in-between versions didn't have a clear identity or gameplan. They were strong, don't get me wrong, but they weren't focused. I think you've got the same thing going on here.

Hakeem, I value your opinion very highly, as most of your decks are excellent. I would be stupid to not consider your point of view. No need to be so humble

I'll try the counter version, thanks for the tips. What do you think about Stormbreath Dragon and Inferno Titan? They don't fit the game plan, but are so strong that I still consider them.

After cutting Cloudshift I don't think there's much reason to stick to Jeskai instead of Izzet?

This is why I posted my Izzet list for comparison.

There really are two decks here, I think; the control deck and the combo deck. There's nothing to say you can't play both, but I don't think playing a hybrid is the right way to go. I've tried it.

Hakeem, how exactly would you build the Jeskai combo version?

Great question!:)

I'm not sure I would even add the red. Mobius's old Azorius deck was pretty great so I would start there. I'm on mobile right now so here's the discussion of that build to get you started:

http://forum.nogoblinsallowed.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=4681&start=50#p172526

Just a Johnny Control Deck, difficulty ill give it a 6.5
struggles against mid range fatty after fatty deck,
can destroy aggro if anger is in the grip, and kills heroic / aura decks like control decks do anyway.
the mirror is toss up

I am personally not a huge fan of Nullify in 3 color decks, especially when you are trying to push to hit on 3 in a good amount of matchups.

I would personally go.

-2 Nullify

+1 Obelisk
+1 Shock

Arrest could be a good addition to most of the lists in this thread; I consider it the best removal spell in the game.
I understand it's not an instant but when you reach 6+ mana you can arrest something big and still have mana for a counterspell. Seems especially good in decks that want to tap out to play Talrand , baneslayer and such - so even though it doesn't trigger Talrand, I'd say it fits well in the same deck.