If he just has good tone, he's just making noise. It's like saying someone who plays an acoustic guitar with a decent tone who absolutely butchers what they do is "contributing atmosphere". Yes, it does indeed contribute greatly to the atmosphere; but its an atmosphere which makes me want to smash the guitar over the offender's head. Once again, power to you for enjoying it, but don't call him skilled. That's an insult to every other musician who takes pride in what they do and actually puts effort forth into their art.

Thats not a valid analogy, as you are trying to equate two forms of instrumentation, one of which technical skill is much less important than the other. Stick to criticizing guitar players, criticizing singers (and making analogies) is not your strong point.

ok

Technical skill
Evocative voice
Contributes positively to the atmosphere of the song

These are the three things that make a good singer. As you can see, technical skill is only one third of the matter, which makes it only a minor factor in determining a good singer. If you have two out of three (as Quorthon does) that is enough to make one a "good singer".

The problem is you are ignoring the last two entirely, or drawing up flawed comparisons in an attempt to have an excuse to ignore them. Hence the "missing the forest for the trees" comment. So your views on vocalists are skewered.

Singing and playing the guitar are not equatble, so do not treat them as such. They are similar in that they are both instruments; thats all. There are subtleties that singers can have that guitarists cannot, and vice versa. They CANNOT be treated as equatable, and unless you sing, you cannot have a full understandig. Just like I dont pretend to have a full comprehension of what makes a guitarist super amazing vs just average.

arguing about the intricacies of singing often ends up like this

I don't think that "contributes positively to the atmosphere of the song" is a qualitative of a voice. Wouldn't technical skill and evocative voice both contribute to the atmosphere of the song? And it isn't necessarily positive. Which means that, using the most basic form of logic, there are 2 factors; and 50% is not a minority. In any case, I'll say it again that I appreciate why you enjoy his voice, I like plenty of sour-voiced performers. They do contribute massively to the atmosphere. They aren't skilled, they received no training; but I find their caterwauling pleasing to my ears. But I don't delude myself into thinking that they're skilled vocalists. I just dig what they do; there's no need to put them on a pedestal and praise their mediocrity and lack of drive for personal growth.

you guys should post music instead of arguing

its just like

It's not arguing, it's just heated discussion. Neither Butt or myself are taking this all that seriously, I'm sure. It's just what we do. All in good fun.

I actually sorta am taking this seriously. Your strengths are in guitar playing, composition, and music theory; which you are wonderful at btw. But my strengths are in singing, and deciphering the encompassing atmosphere/ethos behind the music. I think you are again, missing the forest for the trees, and trying to understand something terribly foreign to you by aligning your views on guitar and music theory to something that cannot be analyzed in such a manner. As I said you should rethink your views, as you are missing the entire picture, and damning many good vocalist because you have a... more narrow definition of "good singer"

Until you grasp theory and have taken formal training in any instrument (including voice), I'm afraid I can't take you as seriously as you'd probably like; and to say that not only myself, but 3 or 4 other people with arguably 30+ years more experience playing, producing and enjoying music between us than you do, to find vocals to be "terribly foreign" proves you to be ignorant, especially when your "expertise" isn't even in singing in the strictest sense of the word, but wailing and growling. Honestly, no offense meant there.

It sorta is though. Singing and playing guitar are two vastly different things. You can't just analyze vocals like you would the guitar, and vice versa. Its just not right. I mean, if this were a matter of music theory or composition, I would yield to your authority. But I cannot accept your opinions here, as vocals and analyzing songs as a whole, atmosphere, ethos and all, (you even said when you listen to a song, you zone in onto the guitars) are my forte.

Music theory does not even come into play here. So bringing it up to dismiss my reasonings just isnt right.

They really aren't that different, actually. The guitar was voiced to mimic a human voice. And you can analyze any melodic instrument like you'd analyze a melodic instrument, because its a melodic instrument. I brought up theory to point out that actually following the key of the song, as opposed to mindlessly howling, is somewhat important. Unless you prefer to have your music not sound musical...in which case, could it be called "music"?

I hope it applies to all threads

oh well it was fun while it lasted

so Deafheaven's last album Sunbather is pretty good. Not as good as Roads though. Violet will always be a classic track by them.

For now, this one. However, I'll point out this from the CoC:



If things get bad enough, we certainly could opt to hammer down on those based on their off-topicness.

^thickrimmedglasses.jpg
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On-topic, a song that to this day resonates with me


"Be it not so! Thou shall see me not in agony!
Failure was, and is, no option
'Tis my undying self, the ever-wandering son ov the morn
Abandoned, yet never to be conquered!"

Best Behemoth song? I think so. The album its on is pretty boring in comparison to Demigod and Zos Kia Cvltvs, but this individual song is perfect.

please put some effort into it

this is just depressing

here is a good song

I'm not using youtube links since they make the page load slowly