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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:37 pm 
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You mention Esper Cormorants but did you forget about Tower Gargoyle? Or do you think the mana cost is an issue? I'd test Gargoyle first.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:43 pm 
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A full set of Tower Gargoyles are already in the deck, and have been from the start, hence why they went unmentioned.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:50 pm 
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Very good reason! The list is way up the page, that's my excuse.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:23 pm 
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Seeing that the Artifact deck is in heavy rotation now I'm going to take my Iron Horse deck, Steal Your Face out for some fun. Blasting Station has become extra value enough for me to consider putting them all in for all you Esperontos out there.
Steal a Fiend, give it haste play BS and hit with it pumped and then sac it out.
Esperzoa? Why yes, thank you as I steal it, use it against you, Cloudshift and bounce a BS back and forth to keep it around.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:22 pm 
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Current Esper update - compared to the posted list here, I've made the following changes: (mana base has changed too, obviously)

-1 Traveler's Amulet
-3 Reprisal
-2 Obelisk of Alara

+3 Tidehollow Strix
+3 Gods Willing

The Oblelisks are too slow, but the Sphinxes, given a turn or two, are game winners. I can't cut them. The Amulets are stars, but are actually giving me too much mana, and cutting one is working much better. Reprisal is good, but I couldn't decide between it or Dead Weight, so I decided neither.

In their place I went for the Strixes. They're defensive removal, but also trigger my Fiends and can be recovered with Sanctums. Gods Willing came about after testing two Artful Dodges. They were ok, but often not needed as simply flying was evasion enough. Gods Willing instead allows me to use it as protection as well as making Fiends unblockable, and can allow a Strix to kill without dying itself.

Only having 3 non-land, non-artifact cards in the deck actually helps the Fiend/Gear combo even more too, as my drops are even more reliable as triggers now. Not having any removal may hurt me, but I found my game was based on racing my opponent quite often, so I've decided to focus on that aspect instead and try to ignore what they're up to. There may be a few small changes to come, but I feel the deck is almost where I want it.

I was tempted at one point to include Hot Soup, purely so I could give the deck the criminally punnish name of "Souper Fiends" (Super Friends is a popular MTG archetype). Thankfully common sense prevailed...


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:53 pm 
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Come on man!
Common sense never stopped me!
Where's your will to be weird?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:18 pm 
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I'm thinking more and more my Esper deck is done now. It's in no way a top tier build, but it does what it sets out to do and plays in a pretty unique, fun, and consistent manner. I'll wait until I can test againt real people before I update the list here though.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:51 pm 
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It's fairly infuriating that wizards continues to consistently drop the ball in regards to this series. Did Tony Romo get a development job at stainless or something?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:03 pm 
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Stainless doesn't decide which cards are in the game, unless you're referring to a bug?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:00 am 
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Not at all. But rather how the releases are handled or fumbled :) like how this go round xbox360 multi-player is unavailable atm. It wasn't the best joke

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:05 am 
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The very worst thing about the entire experience is that the one piece of DLC they made sure was up and working as soon as the update hit was the horrible, money grabbing card collection DLC.

That's a new piece of DLC that was only added to the game that day. The actual Expansion took an entire day to arrive, and the compatibility pack still isn't here. It just shows their priorities.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:48 pm 
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After a lot of testing, here's my final artifact build.

[manapie 90 w u b -r -g][/manapie]

War Machines

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (24 :creature: , 15 :instant: , 21 :land:)

Cost 6 cards
■■■
Adventuring Gear
■■■
Traveler's Amulet
Cost 14 cards
■■■■
Etherium Sculptor1/2
■■■■
Glaze Fiend0/1
■■■■
Tidehollow Strix2/1
■■■■
Courier's Capsule
Cost 6 cards
■■■
Esperzoa4/3
■■■
Darksteel Ingot
Cost 9 cards
■■■■
Sanctum Gargoyle2/3
■■■
Tower Gargoyle4/4
■■
Bident of Thassa
Cost 4 cards
■■
Sharding Sphinx4/4
■■
Obelisk of Alara
Land21 cards
■■■
Arcane Sanctum
■■■
Orzhov Guildgate
9
Island
2
Plains
4
Swamp





Instead I've gone midrange, and included Bidents, Obelisks and Sphinxes as my win conditions.



I'm going to make a similar land suggestion like I did before. Based on your comment of a midrange strategy:

2 Plains
6 Island
7 Swamp
3 Seaside Citadel
3 Arcane Sanctum

I haven't changed your over all source count (12 Islands, 8 Plains 10 Swamps) and understand your need for blue sources early curve (and for recursion) but still think you can manage the above count and still gain the upside for Obelisk of Alara. I'm assuming you are intending to fetch Plains/Swamps with Traveler's Amulet and want to hit useable blue sources on curve more frequently so you can probably even squeeze out one more Swamp for an Island (or tapped blue source if you prefer) to improve the blue draw.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:28 pm 
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elk wrote:
2 Plains
6 Island
7 Swamp
3 Seaside Citadel
3 Arcane Sanctum

I haven't changed your over all source count (12 Islands, 8 Plains 10 Swamps) and understand your need for blue sources early curve (and for recursion) but still think you can manage the above count and still gain the upside for Obelisk of Alara. I'm assuming you are intending to fetch Plains/Swamps with Traveler's Amulet and want to hit useable blue sources on curve more frequently so you can probably even squeeze out one more Swamp for an Island (or tapped blue source if you prefer) to improve the blue draw.


elk


It's something I've considered (changing up lands to fit more Shardlands rather than Guildgates in) but I'd rather prioritise a quicker start with untapped Blue sources for Sculptors than a later Obelisk strategy. The Obleisk comes late and is quite slow, so it's lower down my list of priorities than simply getting established, which can ironically allow me to cast the Obelisk sooner too, so benefits me that way.

I may have a shuffle and see what happens.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:30 pm 
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I may have a shuffle and see what happens.


Please do!

After a few spins with your deck I finalized my land counts on 7 Island and 6 Swamps and have been curving into Tidehollow Strix and Glaze Fiend more frequently (with a turn 2 Glaze Fiend and turn 3 Adventuring Gear being the most successful pressure/win condition). I've only had 1 delay (so far) on a double blue Bident of Thassa which overall didn't hurt but could end up being a tempo concern. Having said that, access to all your 2 drop options has; so far, outweighed that blip.

Also your concerns of 'no spells' is warranted. Not being able to interact with board state or the opponent in anyway did cost quite a few games and attempts to race wide weren't successful. Conversely, their interaction proved difficult (any counter magic, any burn/removal, any large threat/bomb). I was generally looking for Tidehollow Strix or Oblesik of Alara as answer cards and if I was behind, Oblesik wasn't fast enough.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:06 pm 
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I agree, it isn't the best or most balanced deck, and if any card was to be cut from the current version it would be the Obelisks. The main issue is trying to get value from the Glaze Fiends though.

If I was looking at this impartially, I'd take them out completely, as they're an aggro card in what otherwise is a midrange deck. If you draw them late, they're of less use, but in order to have them make an impact if drawn early, the whole deck needs to revolve around exploiting them.

But as my intention was to make a deck that did try to exploit them, I think this is close to the best you can get. In reality, you're best with a midrange Azorius build I think for Artifacts, that possibly splashes Black. The Fiends are a bit of a trap really.

The key thing though I feel is its fun to play, can occasionally be powerful, and works as an experiment in getting value from the Fiends, and weirdly making Adventuring Gear pretty good too. If anyone wants to use the deck as a starting point for their own versions though, remove the Fiends for removal would be my advice.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:42 am 
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[manapie 90 w u b -r -g][/manapie]

Artif**'t

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (22 :creature: , 15 :instant: , 23 :land:)

Cost 4 cards
■■■■
Gods Willing
Cost 12 cards
■■■■
Etherium Sculptor1/2
■■■■
Tidehollow Strix2/1
■■■■
Courier's Capsule
Cost 3 cards
■■■
Esperzoa4/3
Cost 9 cards
■■■
Esper Cormorants3/3
■■■■
Sanctum Gargoyle2/3
■■
Tower Gargoyle4/4
Cost 3 cards
■■■
Meteorite
Cost 6 cards
■■
Sharding Sphinx4/4
■■
Obelisk of Alara
■■
Planar Cleansing
Land23 cards
■■■
Arcane Sanctum
■■■■
Azorius Guildgate
■■■■
Dimir Guildgate
5
Island
4
Plains
3
Swamp

This has evolved a bit. Esperzoa and Meteorite makes me happy. At one point I had no White Creatures (It was all multi-blue with Paragons) in here but I wished for Sanctum Gargoyle too much. This also had Avarice Amulet + Creepy Dolls + Juggernauts. They were the first to go to make room for Courier Capsules and the Gods Willings, which is working out nicely.

I remember RDW ate my face hard in one game, but I hazily remember mostly winning with this setup last night. I think.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:10 pm 
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I've had a second look at my Esper deck, and feel it probably works better removing the Fiends and replacing them with removal. The Fiends, even in a full artifact list, and supported by Adventuring Gear, are simply too inconsistent. They're an aggro card in a midrange list, and as they have no defence, if you pull them late they're not very good.

I won't change my build here as I think It's probably the best use of Glaze Fiends, but I think they're a bit of a trap. The deck is a lot better if you just change them for removal (Reprisal or Dead Weight, depending on preference) as the other elements of the deck are great.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:12 pm 
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uh-oh, I feel an "I told you so" coming from Hakeemypoo

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:20 pm 
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2bestest wrote:
uh-oh, I feel an "I told you so" coming from Hakeemypoo


I knew the Fiends weren't optimal, but that's not the point - my aim was to make a Fiend deck, and I did. It'd be silly to say I told you so when that was the whole point of the exercise.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:22 pm 
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And it would simply be inflammatory. I think we're past that. :)

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