Nightmare Before Christmas Contest: Halloween Team

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chinkeeyong

Post subject: Nightmare Before Christmas Contest: Halloween Team

Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:50 pm

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Posts: 8338
Location: Singapore

This is the discussion thread for the Halloween Team in Flopfoot's The Nightmare Before Christmas contest, running until 31 October 2014. If no one objects, I will be team leader.

The Halloween Team

altimis
AzureShade
chinkeeyong (myself)
Hello World
metalevolence

Mechanics

Boo!

(If a creature is attacking you or a planeswalker you control, you may cast this spell as though it had flash for its boo! cost.)

Ghostly guise

(: Exile this card from your graveyard costuming target creature. That creature gains this card's creature types. Guise only as a sorcery.)

Final Decklist (30/30)

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Last edited by chinkeeyong on Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:37 pm, edited 46 times in total.

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chinkeeyong

Post subject: Re: Nightmare Before Christmas Contest: Halloween Team

Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:58 pm

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Joined: Jun 21, 2014
Posts: 8338
Location: Singapore

Chapter 1: Deck Skeletons in the Closet

Compared to the Christmas team, we get the easier theme. The Halloween themes of darkness and witchery are pretty well represented in Magic: All Hallow's Eve is literally a card. Innistrad was pretty much "Halloween: the block." But that also means we have a higher bar to reach. I don't think Flopfoot is the kind of judge who will let us just rehash old ideas for our deck. This means we have to be a little more creative with our angle on Halloween.

For this contest, I think we should explore the more festive aspects of Halloween. According to Wikipedia, the Halloween tradition started as a way of using humor and festivity to ward off the influence of death and winter. In modern times, Halloween is known for silliness like costume parties, trick-or-treating, and pranking people. I think this is a theme we can run with. Our deck will be about the "theme park version of Halloween."

To save us a lot of bureaucracy, I have decided that the deck will be

. This is because

is the color of spooky things and

are the colors of festivity and revelry.

also fits nicely into the colors of scary faces, fire and pumpkins. I will be designing the manafixing, so you don't have to worry about that.

To kick off the deck design, I think it would be great to have one or two mechanics to unify our deck. It helps to focus what we're doing and throw a spotlight on the elegance of our execution. I guess this will be our first task.

Criteria: Design a mechanic that evokes trick-or-treating, pranking people, dressing up, and/or shouting "boo!" Make a black card, a red card, and a green card with your mechanic.

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altimis

Post subject: Re: Nightmare Before Christmas Contest: Halloween Team

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:00 am

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WOO!
I won! I won! I'm Hallow-in!

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altimis

Post subject: Re: Nightmare Before Christmas Contest: Halloween Team

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:13 am

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Disguise - {Cost} ({Cost}, Reveal this card from your hand: Target creature you control becomes a copy of this card until the end of turn.)
--xx--
Up for debate if it wants to be on the creature in your hand, or if you want it to be on a creature on the battlefield, and it can be a copy of a creature card in your hand. I feel that version is too overpowered (I reveal Griselbrand), but again... it's up for debate.

I'd see this like being a version of grandeur in a way, maybe even going so far as to require us to discard. Again, more discussion.
==xx==

Plaguemouth --

Creature - Zombie (U)

Deathtouch
Disguise

(, Reveal this card from your hand: Target creature you control becomes a copy of this card until the end of turn.)

2 / 4

==xx==

Rattlebone Ruffian --

Creature - Goblin (C)

Haste
Disguise

(, Reveal this card from your hand: Target creature you control becomes a copy of this card until the end of turn.)

1 / 1

==xx==

Aromaethea --

Legendary Creature - Dryad (MR)

Hexproof
When Aromaethea dies, shuffle it into its owner's library.
Disguise

(, Reveal this card from yoru hand: Target creature you control becomes a copy of this card until the end of turn.)

2 / 2

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Kithkin_FieldMarshal

Post subject: Re: Nightmare Before Christmas Contest: Halloween Team

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:50 am

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Joined: Oct 28, 2013
Posts: 394
Location: South Africa

Removed

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Current Projects:

You Design, and Ill Render it!!!

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Left Hook Tavern (Everything Roguee)
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Artistic Disclaimer
Please note that none of this art is created by me. It is taken from the internet just to add an image to the cards.

Last edited by Kithkin_FieldMarshal on Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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metalevolence

Post subject: Re: Nightmare Before Christmas Contest: Halloween Team

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:51 am

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Joined: Sep 22, 2013
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Daaaayyyyum CKY you don't **** around!

Ok so re: mechanics: is it possible to get good results from a mechanic that lets the opponent make a choice? Because when i thought "trick or treat" i immediately thought of tribute from born of the gods, but all those cards suck. Could we make worthwhile tribute cards? Just brainstorming here. Or, what about a mechanic that "tempts" the opponent, giving them something if they allow the card to be stronger?

Toffee Profferer

Creature - Human (C)
Tempt (When you cast this, an opponent may draw a card.)
When Toffee Profferer enters the battlefield, if an opponent was tempted, that player loses 3 life.
3/1

Hedgery Hider

Creature - Ouphe (U)
Tempt (When you cast this, an opponent may draw a card.)
If an opponent was tempted, Hedgery Hider has hexproof.
4/3

Hellraiser

Creature - Spirit (R)
Trample, tempt
Hellraiser's power is equal to twice the greatest number of cards in an opponent's hand.
If an opponent was tempted, Hellraiser has haste.
*/4

If no one thinks any of that is a good idea, i understand completely and welcome alternatives.

Regardless of anything else i think we should have a hydra made of pumpkin patch vines with pumpkin heads.

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Last edited by metalevolence on Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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metalevolence

Post subject: Re: Nightmare Before Christmas Contest: Halloween Team

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:53 am

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Joined: Sep 22, 2013
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Hey i took so long typing that someone else made an "opponent chooses" mechanic too

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Kithkin_FieldMarshal

Post subject: Re: Nightmare Before Christmas Contest: Halloween Team

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:03 am

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Joined: Oct 28, 2013
Posts: 394
Location: South Africa

metalevolence wrote:

Hey i took so long typing that someone else made an "opponent chooses" mechanic too

Lol... great minds think alike and fools never differ...

_________________

Current Projects:

You Design, and Ill Render it!!!

Spoiler

Left Hook Tavern (Everything Roguee)
Just me making cards related to Rogues, all comments are welcome.....

Spoiler

Artistic Disclaimer
Please note that none of this art is created by me. It is taken from the internet just to add an image to the cards.

Last edited by Kithkin_FieldMarshal on Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Kithkin_FieldMarshal

Post subject: Re: Nightmare Before Christmas Contest: Halloween Team

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:05 am

Member

Joined: Oct 28, 2013
Posts: 394
Location: South Africa

Removed

_________________

Current Projects:

You Design, and Ill Render it!!!

Spoiler

Left Hook Tavern (Everything Roguee)
Just me making cards related to Rogues, all comments are welcome.....

Spoiler

Artistic Disclaimer
Please note that none of this art is created by me. It is taken from the internet just to add an image to the cards.

Last edited by Kithkin_FieldMarshal on Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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chinkeeyong

Post subject: Re: Nightmare Before Christmas Contest: Halloween Team

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:23 am

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Joined: Jun 21, 2014
Posts: 8338
Location: Singapore

Sorry KFM, but you haven't signed up for the Nightmare Before Christmas contest. In keeping with the spirit of the contest, I can't consider any of your submissions until you actually become part of the team.

altimis, I think disguise is a good start, especially since it can come out of nowhere ("boo!") and surprise your opponent. It could definitely be one of our mechanics. That said, I would call it "guising" and swap the two cards like ninjutsu.

metalevolence, I don't like tempt very much because it's difficult to build around. It also doesn't really evoke the flavor of Halloween. I would expect the mechanic to be about getting candy, not giving it to others. I agree that we should have a "trick or treat" mechanic, but I'm not sure tempt is the way to go with it.

To all team members: We need a mechanic that isn't just flavorful, but can be built around. metalevolence's mechanic is not very easy to build around because your opponent can always choose whether you get a certain effect or not. altimis's mechanic is much better when it comes to deck design. Also remember that we are going for top-down design, so the more resonant your mechanic is with the concept of Halloween (including the name and the reminder text), the better.

Now, on to my own thoughts. I think flash is a simple but effective way to capture the mechanical feeling of "jumping out and surprising someone," so I've been considering a possible flash subtheme or flash-like mechanic. One of the conditions I considered for Jack-o'-Lantern was "Activate this ability only during another player's turn."

Rattlebones

Creature - Skeleton (C)
3/1

Boo! (If a creature is attacking you, you may cast this spell as though it had flash.)

Monstrous Visage

Enchantment - Aura (U)

Boo! (If a creature is attacking you, you may cast this spell as though it had flash.)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets +2/+2 and has intimidate.

Pumpkinhead Hydra

Creature - Plant Hydra (R)
0/0

Boo! (If a creature is attacking you, you may cast this spell as though it had flash.)
Pumpkinhead Hydra enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it.
Pumpkinhead Hydra can block any number of creatures.

This steps on the toes of disguise, so it would be hard to have both in the same deck. It also doesn't have a huge amount of design space. Still, it's something to keep in mind.

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Hello World

Post subject: Re: Nightmare Before Christmas Contest: Halloween Team

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:33 am

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Joined: Sep 25, 2013
Posts: 4316

Altimis's mechanic probably doesn't have that much design space at common, since always having that effect around is huge. and can be mentally taxing.
I tried something similar in my set that put the creature into play, only changed power and toughness and only worked on attacking and blocking creatures, this last part is easily changeable.
Maybe Disguise(cost,exile this creature from your hand: target creature you control becomes a copy of this creature, you may cast this creature for as long as it remains exiled)?

If we want to use boo, black is the most likely one to have creatures with an high toughness and low power, except maybe a giant spider clone.

Do we have any rarity distribution to follow?

I'd avoid an entire mechanic about giving an opponent the chance to draw a card, downsides probably need to be all upside on mechanics.

Frightening(if this card blocks alone, or attacks, prevent all combat damage dealt to this card by creatures with a lower converted mana cost)

Cards later

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chinkeeyong

Post subject: Re: Nightmare Before Christmas Contest: Halloween Team

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:00 am

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Joined: Jun 21, 2014
Posts: 8338
Location: Singapore

In retrospect, boo! should say "you or a planeswalker you control," even if we aren't likely to have a planeswalker in the deck.

Hello World wrote:

If we want to use boo, black is the most likely one to have creatures with an high toughness and low power, except maybe a giant spider clone.

But remember that a deck with boo! wants to encourage your opponent to attack, so you can't have too many overtly scary blockers like Giant Spider.

Hello World wrote:

Do we have any rarity distribution to follow?

Rarity is completely fluid.

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AzureShade

Post subject: Re: Nightmare Before Christmas Contest: Halloween Team

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:25 am

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Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 7801

I'll be ready to help out on Monday. I'm traveling this weekend and my time to brew cards is very limited.

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You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"

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altimis

Post subject: Re: Nightmare Before Christmas Contest: Halloween Team

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:48 pm

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The only thing with making it play like ninjutsu (by swapping the creatures), is why not use ninjutsu instead?

At best, maybe we could have it shuffle into the library and replace itself? But then it's getting convoluted much like Suspend.
There's design space at common where effectively you're trading for abilities. Exmple like haste, or flying. Deathtouch and trample would be too good for common.

I could get behind discarding the card to do it, but that feels awfully wasteful, although that fits halloween perfectly

Or maybe even make it a permanent copy.

Guise {COST} == {COST}: Attach this card to a creature you control. That creature is a copy of this card until the guise is lifted.
Have it work similar to totem armor, where if it would die, the guise dies instead?

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chinkeeyong

Post subject: Re: Nightmare Before Christmas Contest: Halloween Team

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:58 pm

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Joined: Jun 21, 2014
Posts: 8338
Location: Singapore

altimis, can you make some cards to demonstrate your mechanic? I think "putting a costume on your creature" is a cool idea, but I'm not sure how often it's going to be a useful ability.

For everyone else, if you can't think of any more mechanics, you could help us get started on filling out the deck skeleton with flavorful designs.

Criteria 2: Design three or four cards that represent aspects of Halloween. Try to make them generic enough that they can go in various kinds of decks.

If you're wondering how to mechanically represent a flavor nugget, here are some things the deck needs:

2-3 small creatures (cmc 1 to 3).
3-4 mid-sized creatures (cmc 3 to 5).
1-2 large creatures (cmc 5 to 7).
0-2 combat tricks (could benefit your creature or harm an enemy creature).
1-3 removal spells (could be destruction, -X/-X, direct damage, or a fight effect).
Possibly a discard or looting spell.
Possibly a sweeper.
Possibly a Fog or Panic Attack effect.
Possibly a Naturalize effect.

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Last edited by chinkeeyong on Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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metalevolence

Post subject: Re: Nightmare Before Christmas Contest: Halloween Team

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:10 pm

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Joined: Sep 22, 2013
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A riff on the bestow mechanic could work well for a costume. Or maybe like

Grinning Bones

Creature - Skeleton
Costume

(: Exile this card from your hand costuming a creature. When it's not costuming a creature, return it to your hand.)

: Regenerate Grinning Bones or costumed creature.
1/1

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chinkeeyong

Post subject: Re: Nightmare Before Christmas Contest: Halloween Team

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:13 pm

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Joined: Jun 21, 2014
Posts: 8338
Location: Singapore

Flavorwise it would be weird to have a creature wearing two costumes at once. Do we need a "costume legend rule"?

How about mechanics representing other aspects of Halloween? We still don't have a good "trick or treat" effect. Something that deals with the graveyard would be cool and thematically relevant.

A thought:

Trick or Treat

Sorcery (C)

Unless target player discards two cards, you draw two cards.

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Last edited by chinkeeyong on Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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metalevolence

Post subject: Re: Nightmare Before Christmas Contest: Halloween Team

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:15 pm

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Joined: Sep 22, 2013
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In that costume mechanic i just posted, you could also switch "from your hand" with "your graveyard " or "the battlefield "

Edit: that's not supposed to address your comment, we're just posting on top of each other. Anyway, i like the silliness of multiple costumes. It's like "i couldn't decide if i wanted to be a skeleton or a goblin, so i dressed up as a goblin skeleton! "

Misc idea: any potential to costume as a subtype? Colored equipment?

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chinkeeyong

Post subject: Re: Nightmare Before Christmas Contest: Halloween Team

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:21 pm

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Joined: Jun 21, 2014
Posts: 8338
Location: Singapore

I don't like costumes as equipment. That feels like breaking the fourth wall.

Another thought, inspired by both altimis and metalevolence:

Wailing Apparition

Creature - Spirit (C)
2/3

Ghostly guise

(, Exile this card from your graveyard: Target creature you control becomes a copy of this creature. Guise only as a sorcery.)

It's 4 AM here so I'm going to bed now. Hope to see a lot of discussion and new cards when I return!

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metalevolence

Post subject: Re: Nightmare Before Christmas Contest: Halloween Team

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:23 pm

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Here is an idea that we should definitely do with whatever iteration of disguise we end up with

Trick-Or-Treater

Creature - Human Rogue
As long as it's costumed, Trick-Or-Treater can't be blocked.
"Why, aren't you a cute one! And what did you dress up as?"
2/1

If we end up with a "becomes a copy" mechanic, his ability would be something like "when this becomes disguised, it also gains 'this creature can't be blocked. '"

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