Correct, they were not examples about Magic, they were examples of other games that have discussion, strategy, format, and other non-game components or threads but still belong in Posting Games because those threads are there to facilitate the posting game thread. I dont see what about Magic games would make them an exception.

Now if it was a discussion about "What are the best 3 card magic decks you can think of?" or "Would you ban this card from 3CM to make it fair" etc ...bam, totally a discussion topic and fits right at home in Magic General. Depending on the topic they might even fit into some of the deckbuilding areas. But if its actually a game where the decks are submitted, games are played, rules of the round are posted as well as who won the last round etc...thats a Posting Game.

It being a direct response to my post and being vague language basically makes it come across as 'you guys' = 'everyone who disagrees with me'. *shrug*

My stance is exactly the same as when the discussion started : Forum games in the forum games area, discussions in the topic discussions area.

Newcomers who were looking to join RPG posting games have showed up and been able to locate the giant area on the main page labeled Posting Games and not been wondering around RPG General. New players who've joined to hop in games like Mafia have joined up and been able to gather that if they wanted to play a game that the Posting Games area would be the place to go for it. What about Magic would make someone who wants to play Magic via a posting game not check the posting games area to see if there are any magic games? Or to start their own games in the posting games area?

Agreed, a shadow topic or a second thread that continuously gets posted in up in Magic General that basically does the exact same thing as what the game thread itself would do is a poor solution. The best route would be a nice easy to read FAQ at the top of Magic General that explained to new people what the various parts of the forum are, especially the Magic parts. Not only would that send traffic to the posting games for Magic but it would also break the ice on some of the 'harder to draw new people to' areas of the Magic boards like ME:M.

A second option would be a smooth and simple sticky saying "Hey, wanna play Magic posting games? Check theses out" and then it could link to not only the posting games area but a quick ping to a mod and the first post of the thread could be keep a nice up to date Table of Contents of on-going games and contests.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm of the opinion that the players of the game should decide where they would like to play the game. This whole "integration for the sake of integration" thing is bad, IMO, because you're forcing people down avenues that they don't want to go down. If you want to grow your board, you have to make sure people are happy coming here. As far as integration, the only thing you can do is provide awareness of all the things your board offers to its users and hope they branch out.

Shoehorning people into places they'd rather not go "for the sake of integration" doesn't make people integrate it just makes them leave.

@hakeem,

So if they wanted to play 3cm over in DOTP, would you still be fine with it? Because I personally would consider that to be blatantly off topic and out of place in the DOTP subforum. There's a reason this isn't just one big forum page without any subforums.......

Did I explicitly have to say "within reason"? I thought we could be intelligent enough to know that playing a Magic game in the D&D area wasn't the type of thing I was advocating for. Razor has laid out a reasoned argument based on precedence for why 3cm should be in general, he's not just saying "because I want it to be".

Sigh.

I think the most important criteria for thread placement is putting them somewhere that people who would be interested in them go. For example, most people in the PbP section are roleplayers who wouldn't be interested in 3cm, whereas most people in magic general are magic players, who would. Maybe it technically fits in the PbP category, but what's the point of all the categorization if it can't help people find threads they're interested in?

Completely agree, my stance on having posting games in the posting game area has nothing to do with wanting MtG players to meet RPGers and OTRers or any of that sort of stuff. The way that a board should have its members exploring other areas and meeting other posters is through things like announcements, contests, events, and similar cross-forum activities. UNCON would be a perfect example of this; having contests or events that would draw people into areas they normally wouldn't go and have a global announcement linking to all the various activities.

Right, and people who are interested in playing Posting Games should be able to notice the super huge Posting Games area right on the front page. Once again, if MTG had the traffic and number of games to warrant a 'Magic Puzzles Fun & Games' or whatever area within the Magic boards I'm fully for petitioning to have that set up.

Most of the people in PBP aren't roleplayers actually, theres only a few names I can think of that exclusively post on RPG related forums and don't go to the Magic ones. Most of the threads in PBP are RPG related, but you'll find that most of the members posting spend more time in the Magic Boards than the RPG boards. Thats sorta just schemantics besides the point though.

The large number of RPG threads though has to deal with the fact that when the forum launched a bunch of RPGers were chomping at the bit to get posting games going. ((most of them had just had games ruined over on WotC due to the new boards)) So several games sprung up off the bat and it's helped drive people in those games to go on to hosting their own and such. Whereas aside from the Card Chain Game it was much much longer before any Magic posting games started spring up. In fact obvious games like 'What Card Am I Thinking Of?' weren't started until around June...almost 9 months after the site was started.

But none of that still answers the question:
RPGers who want to play games via a posting game format can find their way to the large Posting Games forums area.
'Other Games' players who want to play things via posting game format like Mafia, Werewolf, Resistance etc can find their wa to the large Posting Games area.
What about Magic the Gathering would make it where if someone thinks "I'd like to play Magic Posting Games, that they wouldnt check the Posting Games area?

Can someone without knowledge of MtG itself participate in and enjoy a game of 3cm?

Can someone without knowledge of d20 Modern join a d20 Modern game?

Can someone without knowledge of Mafia join an advanced Bastardized Mafia game?

Can someone without knowledge of the Resistance board game join a Resistance posting game?

- - - - - - - -

Contrary to what you were shooting for though, yes players actually could. Or at least I would hope that the people playing 3CM would be accepting and helping to new players in the same way that GMs and other players are accepting and help mentor players who are new to RPGs, or Mafia, or any other game.

But would they have to teach them Magic before teaching them 3cm? These are genuine queries, I honestly didn't read the whole thread.

A player who are barebones brand new to Magic would not want to jump into a more advanced game with custom rules like 3cm. In exactly the same way that a player brand new to D&D wouldnt jump into a game starting at lvl 10 and using a slew of homebrew rules, or that a player brand new to mafia wouldnt jump into an advanced game or advanced 'bastard game' full of complex roles and changes to the default rules of the game.

Making a '3cm for Newbies' would also be just as easy as making a 'Starter Set D&D campaign for newbies' or a 'Mini Mafia game for newbies'



I dont honestly see how needing basic knowledge of the game to play in it would require the posting game to be in the general forum for that particular game. I can think of a handful of RPG players who are jumping into RPG posting games even though they have zero experience with the system, yet they dont need that campaign to be hosted in RPG General. Likewise, as mentioned above, those who are experienced in RPGs have been able to assume that if they wanted to play via a posting game that the PBP area is the place to find them.

Players both new and veteran to other game and rulesets have been able to find and join the games they've wanted, why would MtG be different?

I promised myself I'd stay out of here. but I'm bad at promises. one last time.


it's not about people actively looking for Magic posting games. it's about people looking for Magic-related activities. people don't come here expecting 3CM and then go digging around until they find it. they come here, check out our Magic-related activities, conveniently organized under the "Magic: The Gathering" header, then decide if they want to stay. and those people won't look in the Posting Games section because they're looking for Magic.

as for why Magic is different from D&D, Mafia, and the like, Magic does not have a rich tradition of PbP anymore. it did, at one point, back in the day. you had text duels. but with Workstation, Cockatrice, and even MTGO, it's really easy to play magic with someone through much better, faster, and more convenient formats. the reason we're not seeing a resurgence of MPFG around here isn't because we don't have the people. we have plenty of magic players. it's because it's not necessary. a forum is not a good platform for magic games. 3cm is one of the few actual games that you can't just do better on a different, free client. that means that no one who comes here from other magic forums expects magic to have posting games, so why look there?

again, setting aside your baseless conjecture, I have hard evidence that people who would be interested in 3cm come to this forum, which has 3cm, and don't find it for months. Rush_Clasic did just that, and Rush is not an idiot. in fact, Rush is such an avid 3CMer that he went and started his own variant game, which launched to a grand total of 7 entries because no one knew it was happening. so whether or not you think Magic players should check Posting Games, the fact is that not all of them do, and 3CM, an open-entry serialized activity that keeps people attached to the forum and drives activity, suffers for it.

another point: 3CM is the only active thread in Structured PbP without an associated set-up thread in the set-up forum. the very way the system is set up discourages people from looking there on the off-chance that some new activity will pop up, because everything else there is closed to new entrants and was signed up for in a completely separate forum.

Heh.

No. 3cm requires an extensive knowledge of very obscure magic cards. Or a lot of patience for losing.

Well then it's more of a Magic game than it is a posting game ergo it belongs in Magic General.

Only because they axed MPFG and the group MPFG collapsed because it could no longer be reached conveniently.

That problem is not around here.

yeah because we've never had an MPFG to begin with.

With MPFG I meant any playing area. Everything from that section of the boards was moved to the group structure and eventually disappeared.

And we have a playing area here.
Everything else is there. I don't see any reason to give the exception to 3cm, but you know my stance already.

because "Everything else is there" is a demonstrably inaccurate claim?

Well if you really want to nitpick, how about "The vast majority of **** is over there, and everything that isn't either has a very good reason for not being there or is something we support moving there."

But you already knew this.

Do so then. Mention a MPFG game that exists on these forum outside of the pbp area.