I uploaded the Tome of Flavor and old M:EM archive indices to the Google Drive, along with my other list of urls. And I found some artwork in there that I thought was lost!

I can also just upload the .doc version of the Acharu dossier if people want me to. Although that isn't necessary with the old archive still accessible, and it still wouldn't be in the correct format.

It seems prudent to at least upload the map and concept art since that fell off of the Wizards site.


Edit: For some reason, when I look in the archive here, none of the artwork loads except Molcru and Fala. Is it just me or is something wrong?

On my phone before clinical shift, so I'll make this quick.

Yeah, uploading the .doc version will most definitely not make my job any easier; I've got to read through it to correct typos as well as make all the correct format conversions for this forum.

I have the art as it was included in the original thread -- I saved it in a full HTML file before the forumocalypse, so those got saved in a separate folder along with the page.

The viewing images problem is... sort of a problem on your end, but not just you. With google Drive being a mass of JavaScript, some people have problems viewing the art through this forum's image feature. Personally, though, I don't know anywhere else to store them.

I've been working on getting my long list of flavor page urls onto the spreadsheet, and I'm already running into ones that have died since I last saw them.

Specifically, the three Artifacts Cycle short stories that were on Will McDermott's website: The Wayback Machine caught Remembrance, but Scars and Autopsy are gone. The Wayback Machine only records their dessicated, empty husks. Does anyone know if there are other copies of these stories anywhere, or are they gone forever?

Likewise, what happened to the short stories on the Scars of Mirrodin block minisite, and the stories that came in the Innistrad block ARG? I assume they are gone from Wizards now... was anyone ever able to archive them?

I've been working on adding more urls to my "index," and started crawling through the old forum to find bits of stuff... though mostly I'm not saving urls for conversations. I'm only picking through Gleemax right now... theoretically I should pick through Phyrexia and Salvation too but.... oofda.

If anyone's already added my M:EM "old archive" index to the NGA wiki, new info for that: "Stormtide" is by Saprolangtoken and "Just a Suggestion" is by Gamma-mage. Who wrote "The Blade That Cuts Eternity"? Was it Barinellos?

I'm nowhere near done organizing everything into my spreadsheet, let alone getting to Step 2 (which is theoretically to create backups offline or at the Internet Archive for everything) but I have significantly more than I had before. It is more-or-less organized, but material is currently split between the spreadsheet and the word doc. Should I upload new versions to the drive, periodically as I add to them? Or should I wait to re-upload until I'm done putting everything onto the spreadsheet?

Heh, if you REALLY want to make yourself crazy, check through phyrexia.com... or worse, try digging through the old ccg forums, some of which are still accessible via the Internet Archive.

I'd say wrt when you're adding stuff to the drive, do it when it's most convenient for your workflow

Crazy in the sense of "frustrated, confused, lost" or "brain-broken by unspeakable Phyrexian horrors"?

But seriously, I know nothing about the place. If you can direct me to the spheres or other subfora most likely to contain things that need archiving, please do! Also do you know where to get to the Encyclopedia Phyrexiana? Is that worth saving?

And what's "wrt"?



Edit: Hrm. Drive doesn't want to upload anything. It's stuck at 0%. I'll try again when I get home from volunteering.
Edit2: Nevermind, I had the scripts off again. And hallejula, they're easy to convert to Google format. SO much more readable! I think I can do more with the spreadsheet now that I know it'll display properly.

Here's a very quick and dirty runthrough of where useful stuff might be on phyrexia.com:

http://phyrexia.com/weatherlightsaga/
http://www.phyrexia.com/forum/messages/ ... 1332708897
http://phyrexia.com/continuity/
http://phyrexia.com/magazine/

Other useful resources are here:

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3741

No one really jumped on this work back when I posted it though Part of the reason I kinda gave up on the AF&S board honestly...

Also you probably want to keep tabs on this if you aren't already: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6380 Azure seems to be doing damn good work there.

I wonder if some of the original storyline information is locked away on ccgnews... I did find that statement from Jaya confirming that Urza was a natural Planeswalker after all.

wrt=with respect to

Thanks. I cannot make promises but maybe I'll be able to look in there. I already started in on the Gleemax board but I do think that finding and archiving stuff from Phyexia should be a priority even over archiving old wizards.com articles.

Then again Wil McDermott's website died since I last saw it and we lost two short stories.


Actually Keeper, I think you and I should work out a triage protocol or list of priorities, since we're more-or-less in a triage situation. The loss is slow, but so is progress. I think the best priority for action is:

1. List and categorize what exists. This is what my spreadsheet is for.
2. Archive. The quick-and-dirty methods are copy-paste offline or copy it to the Internet Archive. There may be a better method but I don't know of a quicker one.
3. Organize more.
4. Synthesize, analyze. Your planeswalkers guides to Jamuraa, Ulgrotha, and Rabiah are awesome, but more like them can be made after the primary and secondary sources are saved for the future. This is also where a new Tome of Flavor would have table of contents pages similar to what Skibo set up for the old Tome of Flavor, so that there's a one-stop location collecting everything for each plane, each era, each subject type, each block, each set, and each continuity. This might be accomplished with just a sortable spreadsheet like mine.


Going forward, I feel like I should do #1-2 for each source before moving on to the next, which probably means separate spreadsheets and then integrating them into the master spreadsheet at step 3.

But I need to lean on your greater knowledge for priorities in what websites to target first -- which ones are likely to go belly-up earliest? My rough attempt at a priority list:

1. Minisites for new sets (They're abandoned Pretty Darn Quick.)
2. Old Old Wizards website (The website before the previous one is really really abandoned, but there are still bits left to rescue.)
3. Phyrexia.com (It's abandoned/depopulated already?)
4. Old Wizards articles (The old website is abandoned.)
5. Wizards/Gleemax forum (Technically still in use even if it is badly managed. I should probably just note somewhere what page I reached and stop delving there for now?)
6. NGA (It's new and its long-term stability hasn't been tested.)
7. MtGSalvation. (It's been stable for years and shows no sign of imploding.)
8. Old M:EM archives (Luna already archived what is available.)

Other 3rd-party sites, like the Will McDermott site or artists' portfolios, have to be assessed as we encounter them, of course. I don't know where Jeff Lee's site belongs on that list, or how stable Phyrexia really is anymore.

Please tell me what you think. (All/any of you.)

The currently released mini-sites aren't worth saving. They don't have the same depth or degree of insight as they used to. The Khans of Tarkir one was utterly pointless past the card gallery (then again, there was all of one tab besides the gallery).
I can't remember if the Innistrad mini-site was worth much, but I know the Zendikar and Shards of Alara one were. Everything past that might already be abandoned.

The Internet Archive has saved mini-sites for some blocks (Ravnica 1, Shadowmoor, Time Spiral, Coldsnap, Morningtide). I didn't see any sign of Mirrodin 1, Kamigawa, or Alara-Theros but maybe the urls changed again before Alara, or the longer set names have been abbreviated somehow. Do you know what urls they were at?

Theros minisite was all of just... This.
http://archive.wizards.com/magic/tcg/pr ... cts/theros
Similarly, most of the rest of them were really dull and minimal.

Scars was a monstrous flash site, so I won't even try, but Zendikar block was the last one that had any notable structure to it:
http://archive.wizards.com/magic/tcg/pr ... s/zendikar
http://archive.wizards.com/magic/tcg/pr ... /worldwake
http://archive.wizards.com/magic/tcg/pr ... theeldrazi

Of special note from the Alara site was:
http://archive.wizards.com/mtg/flash/al ... lorer.html
but here the complete sites are:
http://archive.wizards.com/magic/tcg/pr ... rdsofalara
http://archive.wizards.com/magic/tcg/pr ... ts/conflux
http://archive.wizards.com/magic/tcg/pr ... larareborn

I honestly don't think Lorwyn ever had a mini site, but I wouldn't really know.

Here are the Kamigawa vignette, but I don't think any actual site is still around:
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/tcg/ar ... /vignettes

Similarly, here are some vignettes that pertained to Dissension:
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Ar ... micfiction
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Ar ... dosfiction
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Ar ... usfiction1

Then there were the "style guides" which at some point were part of the mini-site
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/Magazi ... rcana/1141
http://archive.wizards.com/magic/magazi ... rcana/1090
http://archive.wizards.com/magic/magazi ... rcana/1158
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/Magazi ... rcana/1005
http://archive.wizards.com/magic/magazi ... rcana/1025
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/Magazi ... rcana/1043
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/Magazi ... arcana/985
http://archive.wizards.com/magic/magazi ... arcana/944
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/Magazi ... arcana/936
http://archive.wizards.com/magic/magazi ... arcana/919
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/Magazi ... arcana/915

Similarly, a lot of that can be found in the outside style guide too, which at one point could be found at:
http://www.ainokostudios.com/concept/WO ... /WOTC.html
But it looks like he bombed his site, possibly moved it somewhere else, so you'll have to use the wayback machine for it.

Yeah Barinellos and I were going to do a bunch of stuff on Tumblr with the concept art site but I was slow to takeoff basically and the project crashed. My fault.

Here's a list of everything else I could find:

Odyssey Minisite:
http://web.archive.org/web/200410091813 ... lcome.asp#
Some of the minisite works. You may have to download the .mov file to get it to play, and when I did that I found that the sound wouldn't play So, that's broken it looks like.

Invasion/Planeshift/Apocalypse Minisite:
http://www.wizards.com/magic/expert/inv ... e_menu.asp
Weirdly this is still online! Unfortunately, tragically even, not all of the incredible hypercomic is working anymore Which is awful, because it's literally one of the earliest hypercomics online. Like this is a horrible loss not just for Magic fans but for historians of this medium as well. Like this sounds like an exaggeration but you think we're losing a lot of information on Magic's storyline, weeeell, try researching early hypercomics sometime -_- It'll really bring you down. That said, a lot of this site is still functional! Which is great.

Planar Chaos Minisite:
http://web.archive.org/web/200702030515 ... chaos/home



Tempest into Storm:
http://web.archive.org/web/200411091510 ... kstory.asp

Some main page information:
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazi ... feature/80 (I think this has been incorporated into the Guide to Rabiah but that's unfinished and this should probably be archived on its own)

Old Main/Index Pages:
http://web.archive.org/web/200008182254 ... com/Magic/
http://web.archive.org/web/200410260605 ... esummaries
Index on Articles on Magic Novels: http://web.archive.org/web/200410100404 ... ooks/magic
http://web.archive.org/web/200107020226 ... maries.asp
http://web.archive.org/web/200008180323 ... elcome.asp
http://web.archive.org/web/199705010646 ... st_Online/
http://wayback.archive.org/web/*/http:/ ... t_Online/*
Google search for the 6th sphere of phyrexia.com: https://www.google.com/search?sclient=p ... 64l3-1l1l0

Encyclopedia Dominia Stuff:
http://web.archive.org/web/199904220811 ... a/TOC.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200106170056 ... ne/faq.asp
Duelist Online stories: http://web.archive.org/web/199905041751 ... ories.html


Other Efforts:
https://web.archive.org/web/20120715042 ... ction.com/ (dead now)
http://web.archive.org/web/200208080442 ... ndex2.html Jeff Lee's site (dead now)
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magi ... rt-stories Squirle Master's short story index
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/mtg- ... ess-within Remember the Weatherlight

That's all I've stored in links. CCGnews and older phyrexia stuff is linked in the thread I started in AF&S.

I... honestly have no idea where to begin sorting through this though. It's... huge. Totally huge.

Awesome, thanks Barinellos. I'm going to get these Archived right away. (The Ainoko Studios art site for Ravnica, at least, is already Archived).

I'm saving basically the front page and Explore section. I don't think the Product Information needs to be Archived and the Visual Spoilers sure don't. Does anyone believe the Puzzles are worth saving? (I don't.) Are Orbs of Insight worth saving and can they be archived by the Wayback Machine? Is it worth saving the "[SETNAME] Mechanics" pages?


Edit: Whoa Keeper, I'm going to have to finish with what Barinellos linked and then I'll look through that stuff. I know I already got the urls for Remember the Weatherlight and it's relatively safe on Sally.

As for where to begin... my suggestion is to look at the domains/websites and prioritize based on how soon they'll [s]kakk[/s] collapse and die.


Note to self: look again for Lorwyn site and see if the Archive caught anything besides the front pages for the ones I already have.

Some of what I've got up there is indexes, so there's like... multiple things buried in them. I feel kinda like it's spelunking in Minecraft? When you hit like a huge, super complex cave system? It's hard to mentally map out where everything is, where the links lead, and whether you've crossed the territory before.

Obviously everything in the Internet Archive is... well... archived, so that's probably low priority ALTHOUGH making that low priority means it'll take longer to compile more documents/Guides for Prerev. stuff. Anything on the Wizards site should be high priority because frankly they break their site so often that any of it could go down at any time.

I just realized that the Arcana, Savor the Flavor, Feature, and Taste of Magic articles on the old site were numbered and that the existing pages go back beyond the "archive" pages, so theoretically it should be possible to trawl those columns article by article. (not counting the weird ones that got [number][letter] style urls)

But should it be higher or lower priority than Phyrexia's archives? Should the articles or forums be higher? Which should be archived first? Which is likely to die first? (not including the minisites) Basically I'm asking you to give me a priority list like the one I wrote, except you know better than I.

Also, I found something for Lorwyn on the Wayback Machine, but it causes a 302 error. Do either of you know how to wheedle/dig the actual page out of this? Or was 302 the error that the Archive received when trying to crawl the site originally?
http://web.archive.org/web/201408010000 ... orwyn/home

Aaaaaah actually you know what anything in Phyrexia that's not in an archive somewhere should be archived.

I think I'd place the priority list as:

Phyrexia (not wayback'd)
Wizards Forums
Wizards Site (not wayback'd--still live)
Salvation
Everything stored in the Wayback machine (Jeff Lee, CCGNews, archived wizards and phyrexia)

Does this make sense? Anything in the internet archive is already preserved, after all. The first two strike me as the least stable and hardest to go through and hardest to replace if lost.

Alright.
You think the current Wizards forums are less stable than the old website and the website before last?
And you think Phyrexia is less stable than all of Wizards, including the website before last?

I also think that artwork, comics, and flash stuff should be archived before text because it's likely to fall apart sooner.

I would agree that images and flash files should be archived.

And yes, that is my opinion on what is likely to fall offline first. I'm open to alternate opinions however.

Alright, thank you. I do think the minisites and oldest parts of the Wizards site are likely to die before forum text, but otherwise I'll do what you suggested.
Edit: Actually, no, that's a dumb and inefficient/confusing way to organize it. I'll go with what Keeper said.
So my priorities would be:

1. Categorize/List & Archive content (not yet Archived on Wayback Machine) on websites (always Archive non-text content before text-only content):
1. A. Wizards minisites (that have actual story/art content)
1. B. Move the urls already on my document into my spreadsheet, or I'll get too confused going forward
1. C. Phyrexia content
1. D. Wizards content
1. D. i.Wizards Forum content
1. D. ii. Wizards site content from really really old site (I think very little remains un-Archived.)
1. D. iii. Wizards Site content from before the latest downgrade (including the articles and wallpapers)
1. D. iv. Wizards Site now
1. E. Salvation content (always non-text content before text-only content)
2. Archive un-Archived NoGoblinsAllowed content (always non-text content before text-only content)
3. Categorize/List websites already stored in the Wayback machine (CCGNews, Encyclopedia Dominia, Duelist Online, Jeff Lee, Ainoko Studios, MtGFiction)
4. Archive (as extra backup) anything still unmigrated from the Old M:EM archives?
5. Organize all of it thoroughly on one master spreadsheet that can be [used to make] the new Tome of Flavor. Except it should be publically accessible...
6. Synthesis, Analysis, Extrapolation/Speculation

Other un-Archived sites will have to be assessed as I encounter them.... in most cases I'll probably have to assume they could collapse any day now.


Does that look like the best course of action?

I suppose we should actually add the Armada Comics to that list somewhere so that we can disseminate them to the greater public. I remember that Keeper had a link to a private internet archive with those in ZIP files, but if not, I have several of those, but not all of them.