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 Post subject: [Plane] Bromelia
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:25 pm 
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Aka the Unhinged set plane. Refined and perfected for your displeasure and everyone else's. Its not like any of my serious M:EM works are thriving, so...


Bromelia


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 Post subject: Re: [Plane] Bromelia
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:04 pm 
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I was really excited briefly because I thought maybe you were resurrecting this plane in a way that was like... better.

:/

I always really liked the basic idea of the plane's shape but it was just so LOL RANDOM...

I don't know what to tell you, man. Your work is always all over the bloody place. When you knuckle down and write something SIMPLE you're right as rain, but all these big projects you've got going have kind of the less developed version of the problem with this plane, which is basically that stuff makes no sense purely for the sake of making no sense. Same problem White Wolf has/had--it's just different for the sake of difference, weird for the sake of weird, complex for the sake of complex.

If you made a serious plane that was shaped like this, and could reign in your impulse to throw in everything that pops into your head, I would be SO INTO THAT. SO INTO IT!


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 Post subject: Re: [Plane] Bromelia
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:00 am 
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I don't know what to tell you, man. Your work is always all over the bloody place. When you knuckle down and write something SIMPLE you're right as rain, but all these big projects you've got going have kind of the less developed version of the problem with this plane, which is basically that stuff makes no sense purely for the sake of making no sense. Same problem White Wolf has/had--it's just different for the sake of difference, weird for the sake of weird, complex for the sake of complex.



Perhaps you'd enjoy to elaborate? It's obvious with this Unhinged plane, but I have a feeling that you're unfairly dismissing my actual body of work pettily. My serious projects don't seem any more "LOL RANDOM" than other fictional planes posted in this section, and if they are perhaps I, you know, would want some feedback in order to avoid that.

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 Post subject: Re: [Plane] Bromelia
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:17 am 
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I don't find this plane very funny.

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 Post subject: Re: [Plane] Bromelia
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:28 am 
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You shouldn't. It's basically what happens when tyranny meets nonsense.

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 Post subject: Re: [Plane] Bromelia
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:28 am 
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The fact that you think I'm dismissing your work pettily is frankly why I don't see a lot of point in giving you much feedback.

Let me be totally straight with you, Sham. You don't comment on anyone's works, you don't participate in this board, you don't engage in discussion, and I haven't seen any signs that you have ever taken anyone's critiques to heart, despite loads of people telling you repeatedly what's wrong with your stuff. No, I haven't given you detailed feedback. I've tried doing that, and seen that it gets no results other than you accusing me of being petty. I mean what about this plane is different than when you posted it, what, three years ago? Nothing, so far as I can see.

You say you want feedback, but you don't behave in a way that makes said feedback seem worth giving, and you demand feedback without showing any impulse to reciprocate.


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 Post subject: Re: [Plane] Bromelia
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:58 am 
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Of course I don't participate, I'm not allowed to vote or have a say on matters. Last time I attempted a meaningful opinion I was basically shot down.


I would like to believe that the problem is in me, but it is, in fact, in you. No matter how I refine my works in accordance to common complaints (which somehow do not apply to similar works that are equally at fault, eh?), you do not give me a fair chance. Frankly, it's outright laughable that you accuse me of negligence, when you too seem to rotate between a select number of 3-4 writers and ignore the rest.

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Last edited by GobO_DaleCooper on Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: [Plane] Bromelia
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:33 am 
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Way to totally demonstrate exactly why I don't comment on your stuff ever.


Last edited by GobO_DaleCooper on Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: [Plane] Bromelia
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:35 am 
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And in turn, thank you for demonstrating my point.

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Last edited by GobO_DaleCooper on Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: [Plane] Bromelia
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:26 pm 
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Critique is an important part of the creative process. Everyone should feel free to offer constructive criticism on pieces which have been posted here in the M:EM. Similarly, everyone should feel free to question the critiques they receive.

However, it's important to keep criticism directed at the content of the discussion in question, and not the people who are discussing it.

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 Post subject: Re: [Plane] Bromelia
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:44 pm 
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I don't really have anything to day about the plane, since it's obviously not supposed to be taken seriously and I can't really bring myself to care if that's the case.

However, something Helios said stuck with me and I'd like to discuss it for a moment if that's alright for anyone present.

Quote:
Frankly, it's outright laughable that you accuse me of negligence, when you too seem to rotate between a select number of 3-4 writers and ignore the rest.


First, I'll address the accusation of negligence. We'll start with Keeper - and by extension, the rest of the M:EM. Helios, you post a lot of interesting stuff. Interesting, but not very well put together, and often, fairly incoherent. Which is fine! Some of the stuff I post doesn't make any sense either. It happens. The problem isn't with any sort of lack of talent, but more a lack of ability to apply criticism you receive in a constructive way. Because of this, you have stopped receiving criticism. Criticism, that, might I add is offered freely, willingly, and with the intent to help you better yourself as a writer.

The bold is important because we are under no obligation to assist you or provide feedback in any way, shape, or form. We cannot neglect something we have no obligation to do. Posting on the forum does not entitle you to feedback - although often you will receive it. Except, in your case, you've alienated the vast majority of the user base here.

Which brings me to my second point: I do not comment on anything you post because I do not want to spend the time and energy to do so if I'm not going to be taken under advisement. There's a lot of accusations of dismissal going on here, and I do not believe they are entirely fair. Mostly, a lot of us are busy or tired. Sometimes both. A lot of the time, we have to choose what we review, when we review, and for how long we review.

Tell me - given the choice and a limited amount of time/energy, would you rather speak with someone who is going to take you seriously, or someone who is going to make token remarks and refuse to edit their work?

Keep in mind - I'm not demanding you listen to anything we have to say. That would be ridiculous. But it is also ridiculous to assume that we should listen to you if you will not listen to us.

My third point is this: We rotate between a "select 3-4 writers" because those writers are the ones who take the time to READ the comments, RESPOND with insights, and REVISE their works, should they need to do so. I have high hopes for every new writer that shows up here, and those hopes are that they will similarly be open to criticism and review!

Eeeurgh, I'm losing my focus. Look, yo, if you want us to engage you, then you need to engage us, alright? That's basically all there is to it.

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 Post subject: Re: [Plane] Bromelia
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:04 pm 
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Quote:
Interesting, but not very well put together, and often, fairly incoherent.



Incoherent in relation to what? Many things have been said about my worldbuilding, but this is the first time someone claims it isn't "well put together".


Quote:
The problem isn't with any sort of lack of talent, but more a lack of ability to apply criticism you receive in a constructive way.



I can assure you I take most critiques in consideration. I've even edited my work in response to it. While I admitely haven't accepted every criticism as legit, I find thse accusations baseless in regards to my body of work as a whole.


Quote:
There's a lot of accusations of dismissal going on here, and I do not believe they are entirely fair. Mostly, a lot of us are busy or tired. Sometimes both. A lot of the time, we have to choose what we review, when we review, and for how long we review.



Fair enough, can't say I don't relate.


Quote:
Tell me - given the choice and a limited amount of time/energy, would you rather speak with someone who is going to take you seriously, or someone who is going to make token remarks and refuse to edit their work?



One can't fault me for not editing when I posted multiple warnings for edits in the past.


Quote:
Eeeurgh, I'm losing my focus. Look, yo, if you want us to engage you, then you need to engage us, alright? That's basically all there is to it.



Except my word isn't taken into consideration. It's sort of a Morton's Fork, only with both ends being pointless.

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 Post subject: Re: [Plane] Bromelia
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:05 pm 
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Alright, well, I'm not going to pile on. But I will respond about myself personally, just because this one hits home a bit.

I know I've said this before, but I am genuinely and honestly sorry I haven't gotten to more of your stuff. My life's been crazy busy for a while now. I often have between 80 and 90 papers to grade, a chapter of War of the Wheel to write, and fiction on here to read, and planes and dossier fall to the wayside. I swear, I try my hardest to read and comment on everything posted here, but it's hard, and getting harder. And unfortunately, Helio, your stuff, along with CKY's, has fallen victim to it. I'm actually working through Solphos right now, and then I'm going to finish Phostus, and then I'll do one of yours (and then Ruwin's story, Barinellos's character, Coyote's character, and anything else I've got to do, including grading 80 MORE papers and starting chapter 28...)

Anyway, if you could help me out and let me know which of your pieces you would like me to do first, I'd appreciate it. I'll get to it tonight or tomorrow.


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 Post subject: Re: [Plane] Bromelia
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:13 pm 
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Alright, well, I'm not going to pile on. But I will respond about myself personally, just because this one hits home a bit.

I know I've said this before, but I am genuinely and honestly sorry I haven't gotten to more of your stuff. My life's been crazy busy for a while now. I often have between 80 and 90 papers to grade, a chapter of War of the Wheel to write, and fiction on here to read, and planes and dossier fall to the wayside. I swear, I try my hardest to read and comment on everything posted here, but it's hard, and getting harder. And unfortunately, Helio, your stuff, along with CKY's, has fallen victim to it. I'm actually working through Solphos right now, and then I'm going to finish Phostus, and then I'll do one of yours (and then Ruwin's story, Barinellos's character, Coyote's character, and anything else I've got to do, including grading 80 MORE papers and starting chapter 28...)

Anyway, if you could help me out and let me know which of your pieces you would like me to do first, I'd appreciate it. I'll get to it tonight or tomorrow.


Like I said, don't worry about it, my beef's not with you and I'm sorry for making you feel guilty.

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 Post subject: Re: [Plane] Bromelia
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:20 pm 
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Like I said, don't worry about it, my beef's not with you and I'm sorry for making you feel guilty.

Honestly, I've been feeling guilty about it for a while. I know what it's like to put a ton of work into something and get minimal feedback. But like I said, I'm going to try to knock a number of them off my list in the next few days.


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 Post subject: Re: [Plane] Bromelia
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:29 pm 
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If you're still interested in reviewing sending me a pm. But otherwise I'm fine if you post-pone until you're less busy.

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