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 Post subject: A question about CR
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:35 am 
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I know that doubling a set number of monsters adds +1 (for example, changing from 3 kobolds to 6 makes an encounter go from CR 1 to CR 2, or having two human rogue 3s is a CR 4), but what if I'm using different monsters?

I have an encounter that I want to make a CR 3 using a kobold sorcerer 2 and skeletons. A skeleton is CR 1/3, so do I need 3 skeletons or 6?


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 Post subject: Re: A question about CR
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:59 am 
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draco1119 wrote:
I know that doubling a set number of monsters adds +1 (for example, changing from 3 kobolds to 6 makes an encounter go from CR 1 to CR 2, or having two human rogue 3s is a CR 4), but what if I'm using different monsters?

I have an encounter that I want to make a CR 3 using a kobold sorcerer 2 and skeletons. A skeleton is CR 1/3, so do I need 3 skeletons or 6?
Snarky answer: You need 0 skeletons and a few things actually worth their CR.
Non-snarky answer: 3, as best I can tell, although the table on p49 isn't terribly clear when dealing with such awful creatures.


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 Post subject: Re: A question about CR
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:41 pm 
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Cyclone_Joker wrote:
Non-snarky answer: 3, as best I can tell, although the table on p49 isn't terribly clear when dealing with such awful creatures.
:thbbbt:

At least you gave me a place to look, which is more than I had. Thanks, OTTer man!


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 Post subject: Re: A question about CR
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:18 am 
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I use this encounter calculator. It's not perfect, especially at the low end, but it's good enough.

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 Post subject: Re: A question about CR
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:19 pm 
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Zherog wrote:
I use this encounter calculator. It's not perfect, especially at the low end, but it's good enough.
Thanks! I noticed what you meant: a CR2 + 3 CR1/3 is a "Very Hard" EL3, but dropping one of those CR1/3s makes it an "Easy" EL3. :huh:

One thing it did make me change my mind on was the last encounter. Originally I was going to have a CR3 acquired wererat/rogue, a CR2 natural wererat, and 2 CR1/2 Fiendish Dire Rats for a EL 5 (APL is 3). That looked like it was going to be WAY too hard, so I think I'll use the FDRs in a different encounter.


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 Post subject: Re: A question about CR
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:35 pm 
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Cyclone_Joker wrote:
draco1119 wrote:
I know that doubling a set number of monsters adds +1 (for example, changing from 3 kobolds to 6 makes an encounter go from CR 1 to CR 2, or having two human rogue 3s is a CR 4), but what if I'm using different monsters?

I have an encounter that I want to make a CR 3 using a kobold sorcerer 2 and skeletons. A skeleton is CR 1/3, so do I need 3 skeletons or 6?
Snarky answer: You need 0 skeletons and a few things actually worth their CR.

Skeletons can be useful. Sure, wights and such are outright better, and zombie dragons are a much better use of the Animate pool, but you don't get nearly as many, and a dread necromancer's skeletons aren't as bad for their HD. They clear traps, and an army of NPC redshirts is roughly on the same level. Of course, if you intend to actually challenge a party, I'm in agreement.


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 Post subject: Re: A question about CR
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:57 pm 
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I'm actually more confused as to why a sorcerer would use castings of Command Undead on a bunch of 1hd skeletons, now that I think about it.


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 Post subject: Re: A question about CR
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:11 am 
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Or why a sorcerer would waste spells known on it in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: A question about CR
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:04 pm 
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He could have found a knowstone or something. A level 2 knowstone is within level 4 NPC WBL, if I remember correctly.


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 Post subject: Re: A question about CR
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:19 pm 
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Still. Why not just pawn it off, then? A sorcerer can do better things with the money.


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 Post subject: Re: A question about CR
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:21 pm 
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You know, I actually have no idea how CR works at all.

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 Post subject: Re: A question about CR
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:52 pm 
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It's a very imprecise system. I never really figured it out, and just eyeball it.


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 Post subject: Re: A question about CR
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:48 pm 
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Ragnar Lodbrok wrote:
Still. Why not just pawn it off, then? A sorcerer can do better things with the money.
Better things than buy Knowstones? Bull, although this particular spell is lulzily bad.

That said, the sell price of a level 2 knowstone will only let them get a level one knowstone, so I honestly wouldn't blame a sorcerer for holding onto it until they afford to move up, given how powerful this spell is in it niche.
squinty_eyes wrote:
You know, I actually have no idea how CR works at all.
Neither did the writers. Just eyeball it and call it good.


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 Post subject: Re: A question about CR
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:13 am 
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Well, they could buy a level one Knowstone with a more generally useful spell.


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 Post subject: Re: A question about CR
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:22 am 
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Cyclone_Joker wrote:
squinty_eyes wrote:
You know, I actually have no idea how CR works at all.
Neither did the writers. Just eyeball it and call it good.

Yeah, that's the general sense I've gotten. Seems the consensus is to just keep the encounters somewhat reasonable and reward EXP based on performance and how difficult you see it (or just award based on what percent of the current level you think they did).

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 Post subject: Re: A question about CR
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:00 am 
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Ragnar Lodbrok wrote:
Well, they could buy a level one Knowstone with a more generally useful spell.
Point, but there is merit in buying a low-level knowstone of a situational but powerful spell like that. Admittedly, scrolls are simpler, but for a spell you'd expect to be casting a lot when using it, it's something that would be reasonable to hold on to. This is a perfectly reasonable knowstone to have, assuming you got it as loot or something.


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 Post subject: Re: A question about CR
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:47 am 
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I suppose.


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 Post subject: Re: A question about CR
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:56 pm 
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Plus, what level one spell would a sorcerer put in a knowstone that it doesn't already have?


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