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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:45 am 
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Blue love is manipulative and secretive.

You love somebody. But you believe that your relationship could be better. You have an ideal vision of that relationship in mind. Then you take steps to build towards that vision, and erase everything that isn't part of that vision.

You want to woo somebody? Send them unsigned love letters. Go to a masked ball and dance with them anonymously. Write poetry and riddles expressing your feelings. Fantasize about them in idealistic romances of the mind.

When the big day comes, dress up and organize a perfect date night. Make sure everyone else in the tavern is in on the plan.

You fear that someone will come between you and your lover? Spread rumors about them. Manipulate your lover against them. Make sure you never see that person in your life again. It's okay if it's for the good of your relationship, right?

You fear that your lover is slipping away from you? Start keeping tabs on them wherever they go. Pay people to tail them in their daily life. Check their travel records. Pace back and forth in your drawing-room.

It isn't fair! You took every step to ensure that you would be together. This is not how the world is supposed to work. Send letter after letter pleading for them to come back. Drink a lot when they don't write back.

Mope around on the streets. Write poetry about love found and lost. Write an epic ballad. Become a Poet Laureate of the Crown. Die lonely. Becomes famous after you die.
lol I like that. You've done a sweet job of showing me a layer of blue romance, and incidentally brought to my attention another more fundamental way to look at :u: love: While to sum it up, Red love is feeling, Green love (minus specific love for family members, unless perhaps that also falls into White) is doing, black love is feeling -> wanting -> doing, I can see Blue love being about thinking. So a Red lover feels how he feels and acts on that and doesn't falter until those feelings change on their own. A Green lover is most concerned with the ACT of love and courtship. For a Green lover, it's all about the Darwinism aspect of it, where 'mates' are concerned, rituals, displays, and the real thing. Black is related to Red in that it starts with a spark of feeling, but it much more frequently (and quickly) becomes desire, and Black itself is very goal-oriented, so more often than not they will go to lengths that other colors will not. A Blue lover is one that doesn't act purely on emotion, hormones, desire, or respect. He instead is concerned with personal improvement and improvement of life. A Blue lover doesn't claim to understand love, (though I'm sure some philosophize) but as a *layer* of life, the Blue lover still strives to accomplish something in its endeavours with love. The modern blue lover strives to share interests, plan futures, compromise, and "work things out".

The philosophy honestly does help, but for the nitty gritty details, how can I apply this to the character's would-be bond ability? I think variable color love-bonds would work better for what I want to do with this character than an earlier concept I'd had that limited him to :rw: and he gained an interplanar bond in a similar manner to how Dack Fayden aquires memories and spells, except instead of touching an artifact, Milov could and would form this bond by getting intimate with a partner. Still, either way I choose to do it, I still am unsure about how this bond would affect Milov.

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:r::w: Milov Lask: Philomancer :planeswalker: :w: Heliana: Cleric :planeswalker: :g: Tsuchigo: Orochi Jade Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Frida Wandern: Culinomancer :planeswalker:
:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:26 pm 
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The philosophy honestly does help, but for the nitty gritty details, how can I apply this to the character's would-be bond ability? I think variable color love-bonds would work better for what I want to do with this character than an earlier concept I'd had that limited him to :rw: and he gained an interplanar bond in a similar manner to how Dack Fayden aquires memories and spells, except instead of touching an artifact, Milov could and would form this bond by getting intimate with a partner. Still, either way I choose to do it, I still am unsure about how this bond would affect Milov.

I'm still not entirely sure what exactly it is you're trying to accomplish with the "love" bond to start with to be honest.

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:50 pm 
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Because his main focus is his relationships, he's a philomancer and a Planeswalker. While I agreed that he shouldn't be able to take others with him planeswalking as that's very unfair, OP, etc. But as the incentive to keep a Planeswalker character is of course their experiences between planes. A more concrete connection between his partner(s) keeps him planeswalking but not necessarily immediately out of a given relationship, and considering his skills and spells and such are scarce, I figure it would be easier to simplify his magic ability into this sort of intimate magical connection (akin to Jace's inborn telepathy and Dack's psychometry) and limit his abilities by what he's already bound by, his relationship(s) with women throughout the multiverse, perhaps a way to share skills, spells, abilities, or some other practical perks through his signature style of magic.

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:r::w: Milov Lask: Philomancer :planeswalker: :w: Heliana: Cleric :planeswalker: :g: Tsuchigo: Orochi Jade Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Frida Wandern: Culinomancer :planeswalker:
:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:58 pm 
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Because his main focus is his relationships, he's a philomancer and a Planeswalker. While I agreed that he shouldn't be able to take others with him planeswalking as that's very unfair, OP, etc. But as the incentive to keep a Planeswalker character is of course their experiences between planes. A more concrete connection between his partner(s) keeps him planeswalking but not necessarily immediately out of a given relationship, and considering his skills and spells and such are scarce, I figure it would be easier to simplify his magic ability into this sort of intimate magical connection (akin to Jace's inborn telepathy and Dack's psychometry) and limit his abilities by what he's already bound by, his relationship(s) with women throughout the multiverse, perhaps a way to share skills, spells, abilities, or some other practical perks through his signature style of magic.

The thing is, having him jumping around the multiverse and leading these women on is... well, it does him no favor. It also doesn't really ADD anything considering that he could just as easily say he is in a relationship.
And yeah, I think the capacity for him to basically pick up ANY form of spell casting by getting funky is potentially even more OP than taking people with him.

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:26 am 
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Well he's not necessarily leading anyone on, he starts these relationships sincerely, and they run their course. In-between relationships he does keep in mind what *kind* of relationship he wants to start before he gets into another one. Sorry if I insinuated it like that, but I did not intend for him to get a whole repertoire of spells and such from a single relationship. That's the part I need advice on tweaking. Same with the "getting funky", that was just a whimsical idea I started from, I moved on to a neater, more acceptable style for it: make him actually commit to a relationship he chooses to get into, and that reflects what he can do while the foundation of that bond is still intact. Again, even once I nail down these kinds of details, I fully intend to make his a story of maturation. I kind of take Catherine's decision making as one element of inspiration.

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:r::w: Milov Lask: Philomancer :planeswalker: :w: Heliana: Cleric :planeswalker: :g: Tsuchigo: Orochi Jade Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Frida Wandern: Culinomancer :planeswalker:
:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:27 am 
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Very, very rough thoughts about love and the color pie. I'm over-simplifying, obviously, but I tend to think about things in these terms:

Blue regards love as a puzzle to be solved.
Red regards love as an emotion to be experienced.
White regards love as a promise to be honored.
Black regards love as an asset to be acquired.
Green regards love as a bond to be nurtured.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:02 am 
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Red LOVE... IS A WAY OF FEELING!
White LOVE.... THE PARADOX OF NEEDING
Green LOVE... MAKE WAY FOR BREEDING!
Black I KNOW WHAT I STAND FOR... I STAND... FOR ME!!
Blue THIS LOVE IS ABOUT CONTROL!

[rocks out to Extreme Metal]

...Sorry, I just wanted to see if I could find a line from this song for every single color. :P Obviously lyrically blue/black ultimately dominate. Extreme metal: not a genre for happy campers.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:27 pm 
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Very, very rough thoughts about love and the color pie. I'm over-simplifying, obviously, but I tend to think about things in these terms:

Blue regards love as a puzzle to be solved.
Red regards love as an emotion to be experienced.
White regards love as a promise to be honored.
Black regards love as an asset to be acquired.
Green regards love as a bond to be nurtured.
Wow, this is a very elegant way of putting it. I like it. Now if only I could attribute them to a more magical bond and magical benefits to match each. Perhaps he needn't have all different colored love-magic, but instead be from a plane that notably features different sects of mage/sages that revere and practice a different colored aspect of love above the rest, and Milov used to be an apprentice/disciple, however learning both :w: and :r: love magic. So I got part of half of that: he can use his mana to solidify a passionate/romantic bond and share feelings between planes, but do not yet know how Milov could utilise this :r: magic bond in the heat of combat or similar. If White views love as a promise, then....... :wha:

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:r::w: Milov Lask: Philomancer :planeswalker: :w: Heliana: Cleric :planeswalker: :g: Tsuchigo: Orochi Jade Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Frida Wandern: Culinomancer :planeswalker:
:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:03 pm 
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[mumbles] Still think he should be pansexual >_>


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:16 pm 
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[mumbles] Still think he should be pansexual >_>
lol I have considered it, though on top of being inspired by someone I know (that doesn't stop him from becoming a very different character in time) that also just makes me feel he'd be a bit too Captain Jack Harkness for Magic at this time, but it's something about the character I could picture, though I'm not sure I want to define him as such so soon. He still needs footing in his abilities. Hmm, I've been thinking that maybe through these bonds he theoretically could get different things from the normal bonds, by looking at them at a mechanical viewpoint: emotions and such tend to be illustrated by Auras, so perhaps experiencing emotions from his romantic partner could give Red Enchantment-like effects, Blue is about the mind, so IF he were to tap into Blue for a Blue bond, he could cast spells that are at the surface of their mind (aka in their hand) but again, I'm stumped on how to continue that thought. I only expect him to use White & Red for the most part, so his main connections that would benefit him magically are ones that pertain to love or relationships as those colors define them.

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:r::w: Milov Lask: Philomancer :planeswalker: :w: Heliana: Cleric :planeswalker: :g: Tsuchigo: Orochi Jade Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Frida Wandern: Culinomancer :planeswalker:
:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:09 pm 
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Red LOVE... IS A WAY OF FEELING!
White LOVE.... THE PARADOX OF NEEDING
Green LOVE... MAKE WAY FOR BREEDING!
Black I KNOW WHAT I STAND FOR... I STAND... FOR ME!!
Blue THIS LOVE IS ABOUT CONTROL!

[rocks out to Extreme Metal]

...Sorry, I just wanted to see if I could find a line from this song for every single color. :P Obviously lyrically blue/black ultimately dominate. Extreme metal: not a genre for happy campers.

I won't lie, I'm a little disappointed that didn't lapse into the Elephant Love Medley from Moulin Rouge.

@Planechaser: The MEM has a pansexual in its midst already, so there's precedent.

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:46 pm 
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Well, I've yet to integrate into the MEM so my experience is still from within Magic canon. I'm not against the idea, but that's still yet to be seen. I need a a proper way to translate his thematic focus (his philomancy) into a means to defend himself when he gets into trouble in the multiverse, and hopefully double as a tie to other characters in a way most planeswalkers aren't tied. I already got the latter taken care of, it's extending it to the former that's proving to be difficult.

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:r::w: Milov Lask: Philomancer :planeswalker: :w: Heliana: Cleric :planeswalker: :g: Tsuchigo: Orochi Jade Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Frida Wandern: Culinomancer :planeswalker:
:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:53 pm 
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Well, I've yet to integrate into the MEM so my experience is still from within Magic canon. I'm not against the idea, but that's still yet to be seen. I need a a proper way to translate his thematic focus (his philomancy) into a means to defend himself when he gets into trouble in the multiverse, and hopefully double as a tie to other characters in a way most planeswalkers aren't tied. I already got the latter taken care of, it's extending it to the former that's proving to be difficult.
Well, there's something to be said for NOT being able to defend himself as well.
We have two or three characters who aren't skilled at battle or even any sort of "active" magic, and as a result they've developed a lot of heart and diplomatic skills that make them feel fleshed out.

You might want to drop a line to Ruwin to talk about that, since... well, they're all his characters that fit that mold.

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:10 pm 
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Also Illarion, Illarion is pretty non-magical.

Actually, it would be worth looking at Illarion because he has some similarities to this character that you may want to steer clear of


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:12 pm 
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Partly also, if you avoid fighting, you give him ample opportunity to proclaim:
"I'm a lover, not a fighter!"

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:29 pm 
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I can see him having a bit of a Dack Fayden-style "why fight when you can run?" outlook, but speaking of, Dack's monologues explaining his motivation for NOT planeswalking when it would be more convenient kind of don't as consistently match up with Milov's "Oh, my romantic flame and/or beloved friend are in danger!" shouldn't be answered with "Time to leave this plane of existence behind without a second thought" but also not "I'm going to sit here and be just as helpless as they are" so he should have access to functional magic, but I agree, he shouldn't be kicking much butt on his own power. Any advice on how to make this compromise work?

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:r::w: Milov Lask: Philomancer :planeswalker: :w: Heliana: Cleric :planeswalker: :g: Tsuchigo: Orochi Jade Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Frida Wandern: Culinomancer :planeswalker:
:b::g: Aran: Drow Archer Wizard :planeswalker: :g::w: Zilin Kast: Half-Elf Druid :planeswalker: :u::b: Valin Drom: Egomage :planeswalker: :r: Raff: Crimson Mage :planeswalker: :r::g: Chrysanos: Leonin Wildmage :planeswalker: :w::b: Whulsi: Loxodon Healer :planeswalker:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:44 pm 
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Maybe you don't want to tell a story with battling wizards at all.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:54 pm 
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Maybe you don't want to tell a story with battling wizards at all.

Yeah, if his arc is all centered in his romantic conquests, then having an action set piece would kind of be weird.

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:42 pm 
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If there's one thing I've learned about Magic, it's that Dominia is a setting that is ALL settings*.

If the DC and Marvel universes which are far more constrained than Magic's can accommodate space operas, slice of life stories, comedies, police procedurals, surreal fantasy, deeply literary meditations on the nature of belief and change and destiny, and dark horror, Magic can accommodate a magical harem anime (though preferably sans some of the more obnoxiously male gazey tropes of the genre).

*Credit, as always, for this brilliant insight goes to former F&S veteran Mercer


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:27 pm 
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On the subject of characters being able to defend themselves, there are a lot of different ways to go with this.

First off, characters don't have to be able to defend themselves. There are a lot of interesting possibilities for fiction which can arise from characters not having the wherewithal to defend themselves. For example (and, to be clear, I'm not saying that this example or any of the others I list are things you *should* do with this character, just ways that he could be written), maybe Milov has to rely on one or another of his many loves for assistance in a fight? Think about (going to date myself with this reference... sigh...) Encyclopedia Brown and Sally Kimball -- who, admittedly, was not exactly Encyclopedia's love interest (although I'm sure that fan fiction exists out there somewhere...). Encyclopedia didn't have to be able to defend himself, because he had a friend who would look out for him. So there are angles like that you could explore.

Second, defending yourself doesn't always mean being able to win a fight. For example, to crib a line from one of my own characters (which is the height of vanity, but oh well), there's more than one way to rob a well-guarded train. You can shoot all the guards, sure. That can work. But you can also just detach the train car the guards are riding in when the train slows down on the grade. You don't always have to be able to match violence with violence to look out for yourself. Again, I'm not literally saying that this would be Milov's shtick, but there are angles like that to explore. Maybe he can use fear or deception to get out of a fight. Maybe he can fool his enemies into attacking each other. Maybe he can inflate to five times his normal size, like a puffer fish. Maybe he can sweet-talk his way out of a jam -- before you know it, he's sharing a drink with the person who wanted to beat him senseless. There are a ton of possibilities if you want to explore that space.

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