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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:21 pm 
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Monk1410 wrote:
Thanks carbon glad you like it. Would you make any changes?


I had a chance to play a number of people online with this deck earlier and it did very well, including beating a "The Champion" (or 100+ online wins) running a straight RDW deck.

The only loss was when I got stuffed with 3 Jade Mages in a row, and not enough mana to do much with it except play them as bodies vs. a fast Red/Blue aggro deck.

Based on the games so far, I'm going to test just a few minor tweaks - the core of the deck (flexible pump spells + low cost creatures) is very solid and a very good theme b/c you have a lot of strategy/bluffing you can use to your advantage.

Changes I am testing or want to test:
1 - Reduce Jade Mage by 1 or 2 or maybe all 3 (the main reason is the high cost for token generation - 3 to cast, 3 to token makes for very expensive tokens). They then end up being expensive 2/1 drops. I've only had one match where I had enough mana and the game went deep enough to deploy the tokens, so my idea is that replacing Jade may make the deck faster overall.

2 - Added 2 Hall of Triumph instead of 1 (pretty convinced this is a good change so far).

3 - Add 2 Hunters prowess and/or 2 enlarge as additional pump spells - may prove too slow or even disrupt the flow of the core,but will test and see. Both are high cost but high reward.

4- I want to test Aura Gnarlid as well due to having unblockable similar to Wandering Wolf and that may be the choice to replace Jade Mage here. Combos of Dark Steel Axe + Forest Guides 1/1 boost, etc. come to mind.

I'll definitely post my results from the above possible tweaks. I think this is the most 'strategic' aggro deck I've played, it's very fun and effective.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:45 pm 
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GoldenVoid wrote:
...

b) Taking the same approach as RDW and having an extremely low curve will not work so well for green in this format imo. It works for red because the red equivalent is blisteringly fast (current RDW goldfishes a turn 4 kill pretty reliably). The green one is not nearly as fast, thus giving the opponent more time to stabilize against it. The above deck will stall earlier than a red deck will and against more decks. Unlike the red deck, the green one cannot have half its army blocked and still kill you out of nowhere, or stall on turn 4 but kill you with burn anyway. So personally, I think a mid-range green aggro is stronger.


I think you might be surprised how well this deck works, and definitely suggest you give it a try if interested. The reason is the flexibility due to low cost creatures for speed + lots of instant pump spells = strategic success.

In addition, having played some RDW decks online with this deck (and won almost all) - young wolf is a stellar card here b/c you get 2 bodies for the price of 1 so you can readily stall with the 1/1 wolf and have it pop right back as a 2/2 ready to block again, or attack and pump. That works very well to help stall against RDW's rush effect since it's not the normal 1 for 1 trade which plays to RDW's advantage.

Conversely, against slower decks when you are on the offensive, similar effect - you get effectively two successive attackers for one mana (they block the 1/1, sometimes losing their creature in the process, you are right back but with a 2/2 ready to attack next turn).


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:56 pm 
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This is a pretty fun Mono G build I cooked up. I will not respond to negative commentary and I will not be censored.

[manapie 90 -w -u -b -r g][/manapie]

Growth

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (16 :creature: , 21 :instant: , 23 :land:)

Creature16 cards
■■■■
Spire Tracer1/1
■■■■
Wandering Wolf2/1
■■■■
Aura Gnarlid2/2
■■■■
Primal Huntbeast3/3
Spell21 cards
■■■■
Adventuring Gear
■■■■
Gather Courage
■■■
Primal Bellow
■■■■
Titanic Growth
■■■■
Cultivate
■■
Hunter's Prowess
Land23 cards
23
Forest


Last edited by InFaMoUsGeMiNi on Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:58 am, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:47 am 
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Monk1410 wrote:
Thanks carbon glad you like it. Would you make any changes?


I had a chance to play a number of people online with this deck earlier and it did very well, including beating a "The Champion" (or 100+ online wins) running a straight RDW deck.

Based on the games so far, I'm going to test just a few minor tweaks....


I went on a tear tonight with this deck and wanted to report the changes I found effective:
1 - Definitely happy with 2 @ Hall of Triumph. Goes a long ways.
2 - I pulled out all the Jade Mages, removed the darksteel axe (not 100% sure on that but I have yet to use it), and all the Wandering Wolf, and replaced with 4 @ Aura Gnarlid. That left me a bit short on meeting 60, so I threw in cultivate and satyr wayfinder as filler to try and add a bit of land draw (not sure if that was optimal, I never drew any cultivates tonight).

I beat another 100+ win Champion (I'm on Android) playing white/black with tons of deathtouch (which Aura Gnarlid walked right past) as well as a variety of decks, and the deck flowed nicely.
The Aura Gnarlids performed very well even though this deck has no aura's. The Unblockable + instant pump works well, and the aura gnarlids are perfect for Timberland Guides +1 pump to take them out of the 'shock zone' as they hit 3/3 (this is why I feel they are better than the wandering wolf even though they cost 1 more to cast), and the aura effect kicked in several times since your opponents aura's also pump the Aura Gnarlid. That's a really nice bonus.

What didn't work (additions I made to test, but failed in playtesting):
1 - Hunters Prowess and Enlarge were just to expensive to cast and I never needed them as the lower cost pumps were more versatile, so I pulled those back out.
2 - I tried the +2/+2 when you drop a land artifact, but it was too random since you never knew when you would have land to kick it and the effect doesn't last into your opponents turn as I was hoping, and so I dropped that.

More things to try but at least right now I feel the Aura Gnarlids add nicely to the flow and power of this deck, in a way that the Jade Mage was not doing in my experience. The 3 cost to produce a 1/1 token just was not fast enough to warrant keeping her in imo...3 cost is the same price for dropping an Aura Gnarlid at 2/2 with unblockable to put it on an even comparison.

Monk, you really made a great deck here! Mono green and aggro were two terms you wouldn't think would go together, but this deck is definitely blazing through a lot of competition using a wide variety of decks.

btw - Please post if anyone else tries these changes and lets compare if you have similar improvements or not.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:32 am 
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This is hilarious, but at least you put it out there.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:36 am 
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This is a pretty fun Mono G build I cooked up. I will not respond to negative commentary and I will not be censored.

"Mono G"
A library for the Mono G 2015 deck (Mono G)
60 Cards. 44 nonlands (12 creatures, 32 spells). 24 Lands (16).

Creature
-- 4x Spire Tracer
-- 4x Wandering Wolf
-- 4x Aura Gnarlid

Spell
-- 3x Gather Courage
-- 4x Adventuring Gear
-- 3x Darksteel Axe
-- 3x Primal Bellow
-- 4x Traveler's Amulet
-- 4x Titanic Growth
-- 4x Cultivate
-- 2x Hunter's Prowess


This is the worst...j/k
Actually - do you think that 24 lands is needed? With the ramp, and the fact that you only have 2 cards at or above 4CMC...
Also - Traveler's Amulet? If you want something to pull out a land, why not increase your creature count and use Satyr Wayfinder instead?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:17 am 
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He plays neither 16 nor 24 lands, he plays 21 lands (27 spells, 12 creatures, 21 lands).


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:21 am 
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Yeah - I didn't do the math, just looked at the top. 21 lands, I can agree with, although I would still suggest dropping the amulet for more creatures. Honestly, and, of course, I've not tested this deck at all, I don't even know if cultivate is needed - there's not much to ramp into. I would guess that, on T3, you're looking to push through some more damage, rather than ramp. But again, as people have said, I've not tested it, so I could be wrong :V

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:18 am 
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I guess that creatures that are blockable doesn't interest him at all.
He wants to get one creature, hope that he doesn't get shock, and turn all the pump spells to burn spells with unblockable damage.
I don't see a good reason to run amulet in mono green (besides thinning lands), and I agree with you neo, at worse it can be a chump blocker, but can be an alternative user of the pump, you can always just run more forests. you need lands for adventuring gear and primal bellow.
An alternative can be elvish visionary and more lands. visionary always gives you a card, while satyr sometimes miss.
it can also push the use of enlarge, using it on satyr will not be an expensive sorcery speed Might of Oaks like on other creatures.
Gather courage can go.


Last edited by bentz on Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:26 am 
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The only problem I see is there only being 12 creatures that are all easily taken care of. It is an interesting build though, it may work better than it looks. I get the Amulets and Cultivates with the Adventuring Gear. I'd take out the Axes for more creatures, maybe an amulet and a cultivate as well and have 3 of each. Sometimes it is a little too easy to go overboard with a theme which may be the case here with the lack of creatures.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:31 am 
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The build might be interesting, but the play isn't IMO, I don't want to play with or play against a deck that doesn't interact with opponent.
whether it works or no? against a deck with no removal, you have a good chance to draw a creature, and you will probably win. against a deck with a fair amount of removals you will almost always lose.

probability for drawing no creature with your starting hand and the first 3 draws: 8.7%
1 creature: 26.7%
2 creatures: 33%
3 creatures: 21.5%
4 creatures: 8%

with a free mulligan you almost always draw a creature, whether it can be removed or not, this is another question.
but if the first creature is removed, you are in bad tempo shape anyhow, if the second is removed (after equipped again, and losing 2 v 1 on your pump spell) you are on the verge of losing even if you have the 3rd creature, so 12 actually might be right (if opponent have cunning sparkmage you are dead anyhow).

satyr or visionary can also be a fodder to tribute to hunger besides being chump blockers and alternative swingers if you don't have one of your designated attackers
(like auramancer, nomad mythmaker, mesa enchantress, grand arbiter augustin IV, aven mimeomancer in the aura decks).
amulets should be removed even for extra forests.

this build would be terrible in 2013 and bad in 2014. but in 2015 there are many builds with almost no removals.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:55 am 
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Monk1410 wrote:
Thanks carbon glad you like it. Would you make any changes?


I had a chance to play a number of people online with this deck earlier and it did very well, including beating a "The Champion" (or 100+ online wins) running a straight RDW deck.

Based on the games so far, I'm going to test just a few minor tweaks....


I went on a tear tonight with this deck and wanted to report the changes I found effective:
1 - Definitely happy with 2 @ Hall of Triumph. Goes a long ways.
2 - I pulled out all the Jade Mages, removed the darksteel axe (not 100% sure on that but I have yet to use it), and all the Wandering Wolf, and replaced with 4 @ Aura Gnarlid. That left me a bit short on meeting 60, so I threw in cultivate and satyr wayfinder as filler to try and add a bit of land draw (not sure if that was optimal, I never drew any cultivates tonight).

I beat another 100+ win Champion (I'm on Android) playing white/black with tons of deathtouch (which Aura Gnarlid walked right past) as well as a variety of decks, and the deck flowed nicely.
The Aura Gnarlids performed very well even though this deck has no aura's. The Unblockable + instant pump works well, and the aura gnarlids are perfect for Timberland Guides +1 pump to take them out of the 'shock zone' as they hit 3/3 (this is why I feel they are better than the wandering wolf even though they cost 1 more to cast), and the aura effect kicked in several times since your opponents aura's also pump the Aura Gnarlid. That's a really nice bonus.

What didn't work (additions I made to test, but failed in playtesting):
1 - Hunters Prowess and Enlarge were just to expensive to cast and I never needed them as the lower cost pumps were more versatile, so I pulled those back out.
2 - I tried the +2/+2 when you drop a land artifact, but it was too random since you never knew when you would have land to kick it and the effect doesn't last into your opponents turn as I was hoping, and so I dropped that.

More things to try but at least right now I feel the Aura Gnarlids add nicely to the flow and power of this deck, in a way that the Jade Mage was not doing in my experience. The 3 cost to produce a 1/1 token just was not fast enough to warrant keeping her in imo...3 cost is the same price for dropping an Aura Gnarlid at 2/2 with unblockable to put it on an even comparison.

Monk, you really made a great deck here! Mono green and aggro were two terms you wouldn't think would go together, but this deck is definitely blazing through a lot of competition using a wide variety of decks.

btw - Please post if anyone else tries these changes and lets compare if you have similar improvements or not.


Nice work carbon, I will look at the second hall again. If anything though that makes jade mage better . I also would not cut wandering wolf, he is amazing in this deck and is a cheaper aura gnarlid.

I will look at what to cut, may be the axe but I haven't drew it enough to see if it is bad or good.

Cultivate definitely does not belong here though. If more cards cared about forests it could be ok but we only have bellows.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:14 pm 
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NeoSilk wrote:
Yeah - I didn't do the math, just looked at the top. 21 lands, I can agree with, although I would still suggest dropping the amulet for more creatures. Honestly, and, of course, I've not tested this deck at all, I don't even know if cultivate is needed - there's not much to ramp into. I would guess that, on T3, you're looking to push through some more damage, rather than ramp. But again, as people have said, I've not tested it, so I could be wrong :V


Darn. I forgot to fix that. It should be 17 lands, 12 creatures, 31 non-creature spells...that was a typo.

The Amulet and Cultivate are to get to 5 lands from which at that point you want a guy and JUST pump spells. They also help Primal Bellow. Gather Courage counter's Shocks and also serves as a free pump with another creature out. The equipment's are there to lower curve. Fog is there to buy extra turns where your 3-4 points away from a win and you need that ONE spell. Its a pretty fun deck that can destroy spider based decks pretty easily but against control and midrange it fails. The Aggro matchups are pretty fine as well.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:45 pm 
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you rather play a spell that costs you 2 mana and fetches you a forest instead of... I don't know, perhaps play forest (the thinning part is really not that significant).
I offered enlarge when I thought you are running more lands, which might still be better because of your 7 pumps that requires lands.
How does this build fair against life gain decks?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:48 pm 
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bentz wrote:
you rather play a spell that costs you 2 mana and fetches you a forest instead of... I don't know, perhaps play forest (the thinning part is really not that significant).
I offered enlarge when I thought you are running more lands, which might still be better because of your 7 pumps that requires lands.
How does this build fair against life gain decks?


My best match ups are creature based decks...either ones that flood the board with tokens or ramp a large creature. Control and midrange strategies such as Grixis and Lifegain are my worst.

And actually, I counter Shocks because I play around it SO MUCH. The bane of this deck would be Vapor Snag!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:28 am 
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GoldenVoid wrote:
...

b) Taking the same approach as RDW and having an extremely low curve will not work so well for green in this format imo. It works for red because the red equivalent is blisteringly fast (current RDW goldfishes a turn 4 kill pretty reliably). The green one is not nearly as fast, thus giving the opponent more time to stabilize against it. The above deck will stall earlier than a red deck will and against more decks. Unlike the red deck, the green one cannot have half its army blocked and still kill you out of nowhere, or stall on turn 4 but kill you with burn anyway. So personally, I think a mid-range green aggro is stronger.


I think you might be surprised how well this deck works, and definitely suggest you give it a try if interested. The reason is the flexibility due to low cost creatures for speed + lots of instant pump spells = strategic success.

In addition, having played some RDW decks online with this deck (and won almost all) - young wolf is a stellar card here b/c you get 2 bodies for the price of 1 so you can readily stall with the 1/1 wolf and have it pop right back as a 2/2 ready to block again, or attack and pump. That works very well to help stall against RDW's rush effect since it's not the normal 1 for 1 trade which plays to RDW's advantage.

Conversely, against slower decks when you are on the offensive, similar effect - you get effectively two successive attackers for one mana (they block the 1/1, sometimes losing their creature in the process, you are right back but with a 2/2 ready to attack next turn).


I tried it for a while, found it OK. I made a few changes, found it better. I repeat my assertion that 2 x Elder of Laurels takes this deck to the next level.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:55 am 
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Elder could be good but I feel you would need to add a land or cut some 3 drops. I guess I could see - 1 Darksteel axe, - 2 beastmaster's ascension for an extra hall of triumph and 2 elder. I will test these changes.

Beastmaster's ascension has been ok but never amazing and can be bad against removal decks.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:46 pm 
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Monk1410 wrote:
Nice work carbon, I will look at the second hall again. If anything though that makes jade mage better . I also would not cut wandering wolf, he is amazing in this deck and is a cheaper aura gnarlid.

I will look at what to cut, may be the axe but I haven't drew it enough to see if it is bad or good.

Cultivate definitely does not belong here though. If more cards cared about forests it could be ok but we only have bellows.


Thanks for the insight on this Monk. I've put back the Wandering Wolf and dropped the cultivate. I still haven't put the Jade Mage back in yet but running w/o has gone well so far.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:53 pm 
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GoldenVoid wrote:
I repeat my assertion that 2 x Elder of Laurels takes this deck to the next level.


Thanks for the feedback. I'll try putting Elder of Laurels and dropping BeastMaster Ascension and compare.

It's been pretty rare that I've actually triggered the desired ascension in actual play (only once that I recall) as the game is usually already decided before then one way or the other so this is definitely worth testing out.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:58 pm 
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I've designed two decks both focused on Advocate of the Beast: a mono-green one (discussed here) and a red-green deck that I'm still tuning (that uses aura, kiln field etc..) so it's not ready to be posted.

Here's the mono-green one almost completed, called "Drought beasts".

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
DECK: Drought beasts.
PREMIUM CARDS: yes.

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*


The purpose is to exploit Doublin Season to duplicate +1/+1 counters that Advocate of te Beast can easily spread among the numerous beasts that I included in this deck (10).

Cards like Hydra, Arbor Colossus and Soul of Zendikar can seem a little out of theme in this deck (no beast trait) but they are very deadly due to the high sinergy with the above mentioned Doubling season.

For example, sometimes I was able to put in play a 10/10 Hydra in turn seven (choosing 2+5 mana cost), because I drew -as a free card bonus for the Hydra effect- a providential Doubling Season. Therefore doubling the counter for monstrosity of Colossus effect or doubling the beast tokens granted by Soul of Zendikar could be decisive in the mid/later part of the game.

The Elves that I put in are very useful in the early phase of the game, especially Elvish Pioneer that can allow to play a Battering Krassis in second turn 2 and to double-strenghten it in third turn by Advocate of the beast (accumulating evolve effect with Advocate of the beast property).

Probably I have to tweak this deck again (Elvish Visionary in or out?, how many Garruk's Packleader?, 1 or 2 Beatmaster Ascension?) but for now it works quite well.
Sorry for my english, any observation will be welcome.
Fosforo


Last edited by fosforo on Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:02 am, edited 8 times in total.

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