Nah lol I'm still running 2 and they have served me well so far I just have to overcome my gut reaction to the card

This has been fun to try but I went against 3 mono white decks in a row. In the first, I got killed with just Nalira and a wall in play. With the second, I had anger of the Gods and used the Two tormentors to stall...managed to come back from 6 life to use warstorm surge for the W. In the third, I got my Anger of the Gods out, but Brizmaz took it and out came a Creepy Doll and Squadron Hawk number two.

A lot of fun...but damn, the ****ing endless weenie decks are getting old for me. It seems like lately if I don't play Planar or Anger or a weenie deck myself, then I may as we'll bend over.

Yeah tokens are hard to combat currently. Hopefully we get a little more mass removal options in updates to help steer people away from them. I have noticed a decrease is aggro decks overall on steam but there are still a good amount. Tokens don't RUN RAMPANT anymore.

Even with the Anger of Gods, this deck will still have a tough time against aggro builds.. Two cards aren't enough to consistently combat it.

I got something hot cooking for this spot stay tuned

My current version of a 5cc deck (Premium)



Lands (25)

3 x Plains
1 x Island
3 x Swamp
3 x Mountain
2 x Forest
2 x Selesnya Guildgate
2 x Gruul Guildgate
1 x Simic Guildgate
2 x Golgari Guildgate
1 x Dimir Guildgate
4 x Boros Guildgate
1 x Azorius Guildgate

Creatures (10)

3 x Wall of Omens
1 x Baneslayer Angel
1 x Stormbreath Dragon
1 x Inferno Titan
1 x Resolute Archangel
2 x Rune-scarred Demon
1 x Kozilek, Butcher Of Truth

Spells (25)

3 x Shock
2 x Ulcerate
3 x Think Twice
1 x Reprisal
2 x Treasured Find
4 x Cultivate
3 x Darksteel Ingot
2 x Anger of the Gods
1 x Tribute to Hunger
2 x Angelic Edict
1 x Time Warp
1 x Planar Cleansing


Standard early removal/wall of omen to get me through the early game against aggressive decks, with some green and artifact ramp/fixing, and sprinkled with a little bit of blue draw to dig through my deck (also Time warp, a very powerful card here, at worst it lets you play an extra land while replacing itself while at best it puts you way ahead). After that you just start playing game winning creatures to win the game.

I've only included one creature that doesn't have an etb effect, because with so few creatures any removal your opponent has will just be sitting there burning in his hand, and I want to try and avoid tapping out only to end up with nothing. I imagine it feels pretty bad to windmill slam Baneslayer down only to have him bounced/killed, but you can't deny possibly the best 5cmc creature ever printed a slot if you are in colours and not pure aggro

Probably don't need to explain most of the cards, but some thoughts on a couple:

With so many strong cards, Treasured Find does alot of work, although x3 is probably too many imo. Time Warp into Treasured Find into another Time Warp will put a smile on anyones face.

Angelic Edict was a card I didn't really give alot of attention too when the game first came out, 5cmc sorcery speed removal isn't really a card I want, but the exile effect has been more important then I thought, plus it can also take out problem enchantments which there are at least a couple.

There is no surprise that getting locked out of colours is the biggest negative about this deck, the mana is pretty bad right now as our only duel lands put us a turn behind, but with the Alara shard duel lands coming next DLC it should improve. I'm still tuning the mana base, I would like to use less guildgates if possible, but it is still a work in progress. Getting online in the first couple turns is most important, then hoping for a green source to ramp is next up, with blue being the least important, only there for support whenever it become available.

Overall it is a good startng point and has game against most matchups, and will only get stronger with larger card pools

Revised the deck I posted for more efficiency vs weenies (Edited the post). I tested vs my own pure white weenies deck and has proved incredibly better than what I originally posted against really fast decks. While the original was near impossible to win with, you now stand a fighting chance. For reference, the white deck I used to test it against can kill by turn 5. I used it vs the AI since they always have an optimal starting hand, which is all that matters for that type of deck.

The changes are as follow.
Replaced 2x Burning Anger for 2x Anger of the Gods
Replaced 2x Wall of Omens for 2x Planar Cleansing

As a result of the changes, a possible alternative now is to replace one of the Meteorite for an additional Darksteel Ingot
It comes down to your preference...
Meteorite having the potential to kill a target on your turn 4 ramp, allowing you some breathing room to survive for turn 5.
VS.
Darksteel Ingot not exploding on Planar Cleansing unlike Meteorite.

Also some notes I observed vs weenies
- It goes a lot better now and tend to go pretty well when you go first.
- If they go first with a perfect draw, you're dead on turn 5 and turn 5 is when you would play the majority of your anti-aggro cards (Planar Cleansing and Resolute Archangel), with the perfect draw on their side, only Anger of the Gods on turn 3 or 4 will save you.
- It doesn't matter what you do, you'll go low hp but once it's stabilized, you're good.

Those are some solid changes you made into the deck, although I am a little sad to see you take out the Wall of Omens, he has performed solidly in my deck and he will survive your Anger of the Gods aswell.

You're spot on about the hp too, and nothing feels better then a resolved Resolute Archangel at 1hp

Id also recommend testing Treasured Find. Most of our good cards are at rare or higher, so it is kind of like fitting in pseudo-multiples of any resource we've already used, whether it is a bomb or removal. It is a large incentive imo to actually go 4-5 colors (value wise and not just for fun) outside of the awsome mass removals

As promised here is my Conflux build I've been hammering out for awhile



As you can see the strategy is fairly straight forward, stall with your walls and the great moose of life and ramp into so much prime cut fat that you overwhelm your opponent

Cuddly Mr. kozilek is often needed to recycle your deck because I have nearly decked myself many times burning through my deck

And if you feel so inclined the other two travelers amulets can be added if you feel lacking in ramp

Edit: Griselbrand is also a liability in his spot because of course the mother is not easy to hard cast in this deck but he is a workhorse when he resolves so I'm on the fence about him

Thanks for the decklist for the Mana Mastery build. Seems solid enough and having a great time running it. I do prefer interesting decks rather than playing say RDW decks. I know there are some very solid builds out there but at least losing with some solid playing and GG is going to make for more entertainment.

1 of my favourite decks and a real winner. Wins a LOT, also can be tweaked for 3 /4 player

No descriptions needed really...


Spells etc

2 arrest
2 angelic edict
2 assassinate
2 flesh to dust
4 cultivate
3 darksteel ingot


Creatures


2 wall of omens
2 guard gomazoa
2 elvish visionary
2 rune-scarred demon
1 stormbreath dragon
2 indulgent tormentor
1 baneslayer angel
2 genesis hydra
1 shadowborn demon
1 inferno titan
1 soul of zendikar
3 pelakka wurm
1 maelstrom archangel
1 kozilek, butcher of truth

Land

2 plains
2 island
2 mountain
2 forest
2 swamp
2 azorius guildgate
2 gruul guildgate
2 simic guildgate
2 golgari guildgate
2 orzhov guildgate
4 selesnya guildgate

Assassinate over ground assualt?!

No Anger of the gods? Your removal starts after turn 3..

Only 4 cards before turn 3?

You're totally boned against the biggest part of the meta?

Your only ramp/fetching is cultivate and darksteel ingot to combine with this lack of any kind of early presence/board clearance?

I can't imagine that you have played this deck that much honestly. I see lots of gaps for inconsistencies here.

The deck works, I play it all the time.

Ground assault is essentially useless, too hard to drop on turns 2-4. Anger of the gods, same deal basically.

Guard gomazoa, wall of omens, elvish visionary early game. I thought grouping them together in my list would help make this obvious, I guess not.

And btw, assassinate works really well early game too, much better than ground assault in a ramp deck such as this. Don't forget arrest, and turn 4 flesh to dust / angelic edict.

Anyway for whatever gaps and inconsistencies you see, how about you build it and play it and then get back to me. I've noticed this forum is harsh on newcomers like myself. But the deck WORKS, and it WINS.

I'm simply pointing out the issues in the deck.

I can totally tell why you have issues casting anger and ground assualt. With an adjustment to your mana base you could play them more consistently than you think. I also noticed your "early defense" obviously as I referred to it. My issue is that at a whopping 6 cards, it is MINIMAL and without mass removal, you're asking for trouble in a meta full of aggro builds. Also another issue with assassinate is that the creature must be tapped. Generally its dealt damage to you if it is and thus puts you closer to loosing before you get your big boys online.

I think you missed the idea behind my statements. I simply stated what I did to get you thinking about how to fix the problems your list contains. I don't currently have the time to try your build nor does it spark my interest enough to do so. The build above it however I do enjoy playing. And it does, in my opinion, a better job at essentially what you attempt to build your deck to do.

Are we all supposed to just run around talking about how great each others lists are, constantly patting one another on the back with no criticism? That's outlandish and doesn't promote growth.

This. I think people tend to take suggestions and constructive criticism as a personal attack. Most people here are trying to help others, they just go about it in different ways.

I think the biggest part about offering criticism is that it should be coupled with offering help. Nothing against 2bestest (and others are guilty of this as well), but he goes on why he thinks the deck doesn't work (which imo I agreed with everything he had to say) but then didn't offer any ideas as to what he thought might make it work better. He then follows with a "doubt you actually played this deck", might as well said "you're full of **** this deck sucks" which wasn't really needed. It isn't hard to understand why someone would feel "attacked" in this scenario. I'm not bashing anyone here, but there's "criticism" then there's "constructive criticism". We need "constructive criticism" not someone just bashing everything and leaving it at that.

My statement, "I can't imagine that you have played this deck that much honestly. I see lots of gaps for inconsistencies here," Could be a little rough. I admit that, though I still feel that my senses aren't too wrong in that regard.

There was definitely constructiveness to my post:

I explained useful cards and potential cuts.
I explained the glaring issues with his deck in the current state.

Constructive criticism with a dash of roughness maybe..

I would say there was more "criticism" that "constructiveness". ;P And yes, a dash of roughness that probably wasn't needed (and I've done the same thing before and apologized for it, sometimes we say stuff we shouldn't, it happens).

I don't think 2best's comments were that bad; the steam emanating from the pile is pretty obvious. If one's only answer to feedback is "try this deck, it wins" then I wonder why they bother posting it. If you can't accept feedback that isn't "hey man awesome deck, it's perfect and makes me so happy" then don't bother posting. You can think the feedback is wrong, and you may be right about it, but assuming someone is completely unqualified to critique your deck because they haven't played it is asinine.

JMHO.

While I agree to an extent hakeem, I also think criticism should be paired with actual thoughtfulness and helpfulness, not just "this is bad".

For instance, don't state "Assassinate is no good compared to Ground Assault". State WHY it is no good. Just saying something isn't helpful, especially if the person is new. I want to understand why, not just be told. And honestly, I can't say Assassinate is that much worse than ground assault. Both are sorceries, if you don't have a lot of lands out Ground Assault is actually worse. Ground Assault also requires 2 types as opposed to 1 type of mana. It does cost 1 less which is a pro.

I agree feedback shouldn't be all "you are awesome" pat on the back, but feedback doesn't have to be demeaning and heartless either.

I agree with the sentiment, but I don't think 2best came anywhere close to demeaning and heartless in his post. Could it have been better? Sure. Was it bad? Not even close, IMO.