Hey can supertypes apply to like... anything simultaneously? Legendary suggests that they can... So... Could we have a Luck supertype, with stuff interacting with it?

Because if we could, that could be a way of counteracting the swinginess. Rather than Daedalus's suggestion of describing particular mechanics as "luck" we could just have "luck" cards like "snow" cards.

It'd be parasitic but nowhere NEAR as parasitic as Conspiracy was, and that worked out ok!

And we could modify Ruwin's Luck Counter cards to be more like Obsidian Fireheart:

Lucky Find

Sorcery
Search your library for a land card and put it onto the battlefield tapped. Put a luck counter on target permanent. For as long as that card has a luck counter on it, it has the Luck supertype.

...Which of course would feed into Proliferate/Counters Matter

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@OL:

I know you want holes to be tokens but if they were counters put into play on something they could be Proliferated, and we'd have another counter for Counters Matter stuff!

-------------------------------------------------------------

Junction seems potentially very fun.

It could also potentially work with a proximity mechanic. Proximity cards are something people have toyed with in Magic but I've never seen a way of doing them that made a lot of sense to me... but if we did Conspiracy/Plane/Scheme cards we could maybe do something like:

North Verkell Line
Railroad
Showdown: Life (When this Railroad is flipped up, players bid life. The winning player loses that much life and gains control of North Verkell Line)
Junction (When this enters your Command Zone, place it beside one or more railroads you control. This railroad is junctioned to railroads adjacent to it.)
At the beginning of your upkeep, you and target player sacrifice a permanent for each railroad junctioned to North Verkel Line.

Monopoly Hub
Railroad
Showdown: Artifacts
Junction
When Monopoly Hub enters your command zone, you may rearrange the position of any railroads you control.
If a Railroad could be junctioned with Monopoly Hub, it must be.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may sacrifice a Railroad junctioned to Monopoly Hub and gain control of target Railroad.

This is pretty weird stuff, but it seems potentially interesting. It reminds me of Dominion, actually, and I loooooooove Dominion.

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If this is a Summer Multiplayer product it's not gonna be Standard/Modern legal no matter what, right? I don't think that's a fun constraint honestly. We can go a bit wild with this, more so than Wizards can, so I say we should go for it.

Well, I'm not really concerned with standard/modern play ability, because this is going to be a standalone set.

A fictitious standalone set.

You can see why making cards playable in formats that this will never exist in is sort of pointless. That's not to say the cards shouldn't be BALANCED and fun. I'm just saying inclusion into a standard/modern card pool should not be on the list of factors limiting our creativity.

If you could do me a favor and separate your ideas into paragraphs, I'd appreciate it. Sometimes It is a little difficult to find relevant information when I'm staring at a wall of text.

I'm not sure betting anything in secret is a good way to go for MTG. It's difficult to prevent cheating, and makes for un-fun game play. I'd rather not have to rely on the word of my opponent for anything, really. That's why I spent all that time learning the rules.

@Keeper: I like where you're going with the Luck supertype, and I think we should strongly consider adding it. It would be so much easier to count "Luck" permanents than it would be to count "Luck" counters. For the purpose of cards, anyway.

I like that take on Showdown as well. Potentially, we could have Showdown bid anything - Cards, Permanents, Life, etc. etc. Hm... That's got me thinking, actually. Three Duels at Dawn would read like this:

Three Duels at Dawn

Sorcery
As an additional cost to cast Three Duels at Dawn, sacrifice a creature.
Destroy up to three target creatures.
Showdown: Life - If you won the Showdown, return the sacrificed creature the battlefield.

But, let's say we're not blowing up creatures, we're looking to outsmart the law.

Forged Credentials

Sorcery
Target creature is unblockable this turn.
Showdown: Cards - If you won the Showdown, draw a card for each point of damage that creature deals this turn. (When you cast this spell, players bid cards. The winning player discards that many cards.)

Or maybe, we're just looking to deal some damage!

A Mean Right Hook

Sorcery
A Mean Right Hook deals 2 damage to target player.
Showdown: Permanents - If you won the Showdown, A Mean Right Hook deals an additional 2 damage to that player for every permanent you sacrificed. (When you cast this spell, players bid permanents. The winning player sacrifices that many permanents.)

It has a lot of potential, but probably could stand some more tweaking.

My concern with that version of showdown (and I say this as the person that suggested it) is that it might be modular to the point of total confusion. That's three different options--losing life, sacrificing permanents, and discarding cards--for all kinds of different stuff. It could get rather befuddling and inconsistent.

I know, I know. This is clearly a case where my insane fantasies ought to give way to, you know, design synergy, and such.

Don't forget, there are poison counter cards.

I mean, I'm just saying.

Keeper, if you dangle the possibility of a full-art hole counter card in front of me, I will give you the world. Or at least my half of it.

Oh no, not me
We never lost the hole
You're face to face
With the orc who sold the world...

I could kiss your mind right now, Keeper.

Let's see, how about I go super-obscure in response:

And I wanna know how it will go, oh,
When Orc hands over the hole wide world to
A super blogger from a school in Canada --
Maybe it's about time the old Orc hands over the shovel?

*swoop*
Raven gave me a stupid idea:

A gun artifact card (with whatever kind of standard effects you decide for the guns), which has the effect of creating a smaller gun when it's destroyed. Or maybe a gun that creates a small clockwork whatsit or maybe a homunculus? Of course, it's all based on a typo and pun which you can read here.

You can also blame my recent stint of Hearthstone for thinking of the "upon destruction" angle.

*whoosh*

Hehe, that's a pretty good pun.

We'll see what we can do with that card.

In the meantime, I'm going to address keepers concern about Showdown's inconsistency:

You have a point. What if we tied each sort of "showdown" to a specific color?

Blue could be cards, White could be life, Red could be... artifacts, maybe? Black could be creatures, and Green could be lands.

Of course, I'm not sure exactly how Black is supposed to generate a dearth of creatures, unless we wanted Nightstalker tokens to be a big thing in Black, but I digress. Red could also probably use, uh, some work.

*swoop*

Hey, I was just looking back in the early days of this forum's history up in the AF&S, and I came across this thread: Carding Jakkard, and I didn't know if anyone had brought it up before, so I thought maybe it would help?

*whoosh*

Hmmm...this is gonna be a "counters matter", set, isn't it? How about Showdown works like this:

Showdown X (Put X Luck counters on target permanent. Your opponent does the same. Then, you and your opponent secretly choose any number of Luck counters on permanents you each control, and simultaneously reveal the number of counters chosen. Whoever bet more counters wins the showdown.)

This way, you can choose not to bet all your luck counters, proliferate them, and then bet again with more! Bam, synergy! And maybe some cards can come into play with luck counters on them to start?

I'm still not super into secret choices being made for reasons that have already been discussed earlier in the thread...

Plus in that form it feels kinda Win More ish to me. As opposed to Winmooreish. We'll free you someday, Renn!

I'll get Raiker Venn on it right away...

Okay, yeah, the secretly thing is a bit of an issue, but there are two things that fix that. One: "Simultaneously." Two: Who's that much of a butt? (Okay, tournament players, but this is a summer set.) And also, what if each player got the luck counters? Half the difficulty is deciding how many to bet and how many to save and bet later. And maybe there are some other cards that take luck counters to do cool things and some cards that punish you for having more luck counters and even some with certain effects for having luck counters on them. Such as:

Big Cheater
Legendary Creature-Human
Big Cheater comes into play with X luck counters on it.
, remove a luck counter from Big Cheater: Double the amount of luck counters on target permanent.
1/2

*swoop*

Has anyone yet brought up the possibility of reprinting Voidmage Husher for this set/project?

*woosh*

What do you think inspired the name?
Though in fairness, it was the IDW media insert that did it.

Damn... I had another really fantastic reprint, but hell if I can remember what it was now.

I got bored. This happened. THINGS

Hush-Hush, the Quiet Ones [MR]
Legendary Creature-Human Wizard Twins
Haste, shroud
When you cast Hush-Hush, the Quiet Ones, you may search your library for a card and exile it, then shuffle your library.
, : You may play the spell exiled with Hush-Hush, the Quiet Ones if X was the exiled spell's mana cost. Then you may search your library for a card and exile it, then shuffle your library.
: Untap Hush-Hush, the Quiet Ones.
2/2

Baloth Herder [C]
Creature-Minotaur
, : Put a 3/3 green Baloth creature token onto the battlefield.
1/2

Krell, Noggle Duelist [MR]
Legendary Creature-Noggle
Double strike
Gunslinger 2 (If this creature becomes equipped with a Gun, it gets +2/+2.)
: Krell, Noggle Duelist becomes unblockable until end of turn.
2/3

Shoot First//Ask Questions // [U]
Instant
Target creature gains +2/+0 and first strike until end of turn.
//
Draw two cards, reveal one to your opponent, and put it into your hand. Put the other one on top of your deck.


Doublethink [R]
Sorcery
Exile your hand, then draw a number of cards equal to the number of cards you exiled. You may discard your hand. If you do, return the exiled cards to your hand. Otherwise, put the exiled cards into your graveyard.

Shaman of the Wild Waste [U]
Creature-Snakefolk Shaman
Deathtouch
, : Destroy target artifact or Railroad.
1/1
"The waste destroyed itself. Let it renew itself too."

Luxite [U]
Artifact
, Sacrifice Luxite: Add to your mana pool.

(repeat Luxite for the other colors-Sangrite, Verdeot, Cielasine, and Sombrax)

Aures [R]
Artifact
, , Sacrifice Aures: Add 2 mana of any color to your mana pool.

Bounty Hunter [U]
Creature-Human Warrior
Gunslinger 1 (If this creature becomes equipped with a Gun, it gets +1/+1.)
When Bounty Hunter comes into play, name a creature on the board. When that creature dies, put a +1/+1 counter on Bounty Hunter.
1/1
"They said to bring you in alive, but you ain't worth the effort."

Half-Turned Nightstalker [C]
Creature-Nightstalker
As an additional cost to cast Moonlit Nightstalker, sacrifice a creature. Moonlit Nightstalker's power and toughness are equal to the sacrificed creature's power and toughness plus one.
*+1/*+1

So... any more thoughts on Railroads as oversized proximity-based command zone cards?

Because I still kinda like that idea, and it's the kind of thing that we could playtest without getting the rest of the set together yet, potentially.

I like the railroads-but maybe with one modification, or something applied only to specific ones: "Whenever ~ is tapped, tap all railroads attached to it." Significantly weakens them, allowing us to add some really badass stuff to them like dual tapping or adding 2 or cumulative effects. And yes, you'd get the effects of tapping those railroads. Good for creatures, not as good for counterspells.