4 copies of Undying Evil and 4 copies of Liliana's Specter should be the first 8 cards in any bounce/discard deck.

Well, if you want to pack card draw, bounces and discard along with some bombs there's no place for Undying Evil, IMHO. And I think that draw is more important than mentioned combo. Could be just different strategies though. And first 8 cards are 4 Specters and 4 Mind Rots Actually, I believe, yours is the only one bounce/discard build of all submitted that runs Undying...

I am with zerker on this one. I prefer the 4 specters and 4 undying over 4 specters and 4 mindrots.

P.s. zerker wasn't the only poster to list a build containing bounce/discard that ran undying. Another poster listed a build that was virtually identical to what I ended up with for my Dimir build (Which is why I didn't post my build). Undying is a GREAT card.

I agree that this is a great card (heck, I run it in almost all of my black builds), but - in my experience - it better suits aggro-dimir which doesn't heavily rely on bounce/discard strategy. Your mileage may vary, of course.

Child of Night is strange and was previously Think Twice. I do want moar card draw (who doesn't?) and have experimented with it (Military Intelligence/Bident of Thassa etc) but haven't found a successful blend I'm happy with yet. Tweak away and let me know what you come up with.

My testing and use of Child of Night is because its a chance at an on curve 2 drop body (Blue and Black don't have too many 2 drop options) and without it you're looking at a turn 3 play (There are 13 or 14 1 drops in this deck already). So no 1 or 2 drops can and does really hurt if you're on the draw. Especially since you're hoping to stabilize at some mid/late game point with an hp defaecate from some good end step bounce and discards (at least the lifelink can add to the stall). With all the token decks, weenie aggro decks etc. any decent 2 drop option is something I'd be willing to consider (and this deck has only these 4 creatures at the 2 drop so really this deck is normally a turn 3 play!)

Child is also reasonable chump and/or trade, another target for undying and another 2 power swinging. With the unlikely play of 3 Dinrova Horrors at 6 mana ea and two Talrand copies that can't stack, there's only 15 creatures in the deck total. So I was after any additional 'poke' I could add as well as any stall to deal with some of the current meta. In reality, it's a band-aid card and there should be some trimming of the bounce/ 1 drops to force in some 1 and 2 drop creature options to help round out the curve (I just didn't want to end up with a handful of bears and 0/X stalls).

Having said that, do you have any other suggestions there?

Undying Evil is a ruthless card here (for quite a few reasons) and would be a mistake to remove.

elk

I see. Well, usually my 2nd turn is spent on either bouncing back opponent's creatures with Voyage's End for Scry or on Think Twice, but I see how dropping Child may successfully work here.

You can see my build on page 3, here. It runs smoothly but has some problems with creatures with EtB effects and that's why I want to add a few Nullify/Dissolve and/or removal.

Don't have any suggestions, mate, b/c I'm still tweaking my own deck

Wrong on both ideas. Many decks listed so far use a deck concept similar to the 'Vanishing Hope' deck from the beginning of the thread but I'm actually not running Undying in my current Dimir build.

I'm currently working on a b/w control deck and a black aggro deck that splashes blue for Horror, Inspiration and Voyage's End and both of those have a full set of Undying Evil and Liliana's Specter but I'm still working on those

(edit: +1 Rune Scarred Demon, -1 Bident)

Just a quick suggestion if I may? I've found the best way to pilot a control deck like this is to not sweat the early turn plays and refrain from bouncing them too early. While gauging the idea of their deck, try and let your opponent play out their hand (to a degree). Obviously some early turn plays need to be addressed but ideally you're looking to take some early damage and then pick/choose which items you return and then force them to discard. Aim to return a card at the very end step of their turn (either your card or theirs) followed by a forced discard on your turn. You'll have better returns tossing away the stuff you choose versus letting them choose.


One other small point I forgot to mention in my previous post about your 'card draw' comment but felt it worth noting (it was pretty late when I posted). Card draw is great and provides tempo and card advantage but this deck is on the other side of that coin where you're creating disadvantage for your opponent. If I could consistently draw advantage and keep them at a disadvantage I'd go that route quickly. My testing so far though has lead me to minimize my card options and maximize the copies of those cards to improve my opening hands. Like I said though, I'm sure there's away to mush it all together cleanly and hence why I'm posting it for those fart smellers to fix

elk

Well, to each his own. As I've said I'm glad if it's working for ya. In fact, "Vanishing Hope" was the first thing I've run in try in this color combination and it did extremely well, but later I've decided to maximize bounce/discard theme, like djAMPnz, Shadowcran and megamaster did in their builds. Less creatures (=less use to Undying Evil), more bounces and Mind Rots. That's what I'm trying to tune now.

Yeah, I've kinda moved away from bounce/discard because there are so many EtB creatures on the other side and there are so many quick decks out there and there isn't a way to pitch extra Mind Rots late game into something useful.

That's what I was aiming to do (gain any value out of late game Mind Rots). I've got no problems using a Mind Rot on 1 card as long as I know what that card is (and I put it in their hand) As for ETB, it shouldn't be a big factor unless there's only bounce and no discard. If you can stall till mid/late game then the bounces tend to result in the discards you want. If you're already forced to bounce early/mid game than there's a good chance you're already behind and they'll outrace you (or you'll never take control of the match).


elk

Hi all, I am new to this board. I have had good results with the following deck list.

Draw
4 Think Twice
Bounce
4 Vapor Snag
4 Voyage's End
Counter
4 Nullify
3 Dissolve
Removal
3 Ulcerate
3 Tribute to Hunger
2 Flesh to Dust
Creatures
3 Archomancer
2 Bloodghast
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Miscellaneous
1 Suffer the Past
1 Sphinx-Bone Wand
Land
4 Dimir Guildgate
13 Island
8 Swamp

The only weaknesses I have found are Seance and Spider Spawning. Archomancers recurring counters and removal are key.

Welcome, Naram! What do the Bloodghasts do for you in your deck? They seem a little misplaced.

Also, there are only 6 creatures... What are your win conditions? What if Bloodghasts are exiled? A few more fliers (4 x Specters, 2 x Rune-Scareds) wouldn't hurt, I guess.



Thanks for the advice, mate! Very appreciated. I'm still learning to use this kind of deck

Overmaster,
I based the deck off of an old Nether Go deck I played years ago. The Ghasts make defeating other control decks easy because they recur with a land drop. You must counter any exile spells/abilities but this is easy with practice.

I have been using Prune's dimir build a ton the last week and have enjoyed a lot of success with it. Like most non token builds in this metagame, it can start a little slow. The bounce and etb effects of this deck can quickly sway things in your favor when played correctly and patiently. I absolutely love playing this deck and I extend a big thank you Prune's way for sharing. Having said that, I tried it because I saw Hakeem's post saying he enjoyed the build. I have been perusing these pages for the last month or so and am a huge fan. As a 29 year old with a young family who is still moving up the old financial ladder, Duels provides me a place to play my share of MTG at a very reasonable price. I simply didn't have the resources to play online or the contacts in my new location to play paper. Duels is simply perfect for what I want it for. I play on steam and play at least 2 hours a day/night, trying out all different original builds and builds from these respected pages. I really enjoy reading the decklists presented by bestest, hakeem, and many other of the regular posters and am very excited to finally join the site and start posting. I am working on a few builds at the moment and hope to start presenting my own original builds very soon. Hope everyone is having a great weekend and I look forward to interacting with everyone on here in the near future. My steam handle is z_young. Kind of sounded like a Keem fanboy here, but I am sure I am not the only one who holds his opinion on deck builds in high regard.

I have been playing Prune's build as well and I like it for the most part. My only real issue is the mana. You pretty much need to drop Swamp Island Swamp every game to get it going fast enough to deal with most high tier decks. The only real plays on turn 1-2 both require a blue mana while you really want turn 3 to have double black.

On the same note one of the best win cons is double blue turn 5+ (Tarland backed up with undying) or even triple blue to back him up with Vapor Snag/Voyage's End in case they have answers. If anyone has any suggestions to fix this issue I am open to ideas and encourage a dialog to make this deck not just fun and powerful, but also consistent.

I am glad that you have enjoyed some of my lists Young.

Feel free to add me on Steam.

I feel the same about Duels. I am 28 and played Magic MANY years ago. I didn't want the expensive hobby any more and Duels gives me the best of both worlds. The strategy I love in Magic with a fair price tag!

Mercurial Evil (Premium Heavy)

20 Creatures:
4 Pharika's Chosen
3 Quickling
4 Liliana's Specter
3 Guard Gomazoa
2 Mercurial Pretender
1 Shadowborn Demon
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
2 Dinrova Horror

16 Spells:
4 Undying Evil
4 Think Twice
4 Vapor Snag
2 Suffer the Past
2 Rescue From the Underworld

24 Lands:

8 Island
12 Swamp
4 Dimir Guildgate

Ok, my take on Dimir. Been using it last few days as my main. Still tweaking it. Would really like to fit a 1-2 Drop creature. But, man once you get to 4-5 mana this thing comes alive.
Vapor Snag, or Undying Evil, Quickling are all rockstars here. I ignore the enemy first few turns if possible, then start double dipping Lilliana Specters, Shadowborn, Dinrova, etc.
So much fun, but all depends on making it to that 4-5 mana. And always leaving mana open for Those 3 key cards. Quickling, Undying or Vapor Snag.

Suffer the past has been a surprise, only added it after a couple Spider Spawning games too many in a row. But also helps with Séance BS.
Was considering Kraken hatchling for early Defense. But, Since adding Suffer that helps get health back. so still unsure.
Any thoughts, share them.

Had a guy tell me " Man that's a real lame ass deck you got there." "Wish I woulda thought of it."

From my above list.

- 2 inspiration
- 2 Phyrixian Rager

+ 4 Pharika's Chosen.

Gives me a low drop I needed to help with early agro, etc. I originally had it in the deck but wanted more card draw. It's back in.