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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:41 am 
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I realized I have not contributed a lot to the community latter with actual Magic discussion, so I decided to share this list I'm working for some time now. I am looking to discuss the list, so feel free to suggest or criticize, whatever comes to your mind. I'll post the list and then add some random comments about it.

Anti-Hero
3 x Tormented Hero
4 x Satyr Hoplite
2 x Ulcerate
4 x Undying Evil
3 x Coordinated Assault
4 x Shock

4 x Child of Night
3 x Goblin Shortcutter
4 x Kiln Fiend

2 x Agent of the Fates
4 x Phyrexian Rager

2 x Cutthroat Maneuver

9 x Swamp
9 x Mountain
4 x Rakdos Guildgate


- I saw some movement in the Orzhov thread about a Heroic deck in those colors. I started my work with this list before looking over there, but I still like BR for the Heroic deck. Black is necessary, since it gives 2 good Heroic creatures. I like Red because it makes the deck much faster, gives the deck excelent removal with Shock and Coordinated Assault is broken.
- Actually, Assault was the card that sparked the idea of the deck. It's so good I even included Cutthroat Maneuver, a bad card, in the deck, just to give redundancy (Manuever is actually a really big blowout every time you manage to cast it, though).
- Tormented Hero triggers really matter. Target it as often as possible. The deck has ok reach for an aggro deck if you remember about this.
- Shock and Ulcerate are very good at clearing blockers.The life loss only matter in aggro matchups, and those are the matchups this deck is supposed to shine (It's very fast and excellent in creature combat)
- Goblin Shortcutter was the most recent addition, replacing Bloodcrazed Neonate. Neonate felt more like a SB card for control matchups. The goblin helps with midrange decks (the bane of your existence), while still having a passable body.
- I see a lot of people taking the steal/sac route for Rakdos (which I tried, but found rather clunky), which already makes this deck kind of Uncommon. Still, when I thought more people would be trying a similar deck, my bet was that the "innovation" I brought to the table was the Kiln Fiend technology (I'm not sure if it really is. If someone was doing something similar, please say so. I want to discuss it :D). Fiend here is basically a Heroic creature, but better. It's awesome with your 2 best enablers (Assault and Undying Evil), grows even if you're just clearing blockers, and people respect it's activations a lot. It also gives you very explosive turns, when you just kill someone out of nowhere. Great card in the deck.
- Phyrexian Rager looks bad, but you need to get the extra gas, and the body never hurts.
- Agent of the Fates is clunky, but a necessary evil. It can take over games all by itself. You have to live with the fact that it makes your mana worse, which brings us to the next point.
- The mana is shaky. I tried first with no guildgates, but hitting double black on turn 3 was hard, and I couldn't skew it too much because a lot of my early games is Red. I change to 4 gates and it improved. Gates are kind of 1-drops that I don't want to see multiples, so maybe cutting one is the right thing. I'm not going to 21 lands, though. It's not worth it.
- Thinking about ways to improve the manabase, I thought about Bloodghast. Replacing a pair of Red 2-drops for him would let me replace some Mountains with Swamps. He's good at putting pressure, makes late land draws better, and it's very easy to activate his Haste here. Problem is, I feel I would have to cut the Fiends to acomodate him, and I think I would lose a lot of power with that. Thoughts?
- The deck is good at punishing your opponent for bad draws. You get a lot of free wins with this. Aggro and Control are good matchups, unless the aggro deck is some kind of token build, which, unfortunately, is somewhat popular right now. Midrange is a problem, but the matchup improved with the Goblin.
- Again, I encourage everyone to chime in about the deck. It's a work in progress, and I really think it has potential, even if the environment is not exactly perfect for it right now.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:59 am 
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I like your idea behind this deck fel. I've been pretty disappointed with most rakdos piles and I'll give this a go when I get a chance and give you my thoughts.

Edit: Alright after some playtesting I'm liking cutthroat maneuver more and more. It's still costly and brings the overall curve higher than I like in a deck trying to be this fast. That said I did have some spectacular wins and of course some spectacular losses to targeted removal :(

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Last edited by Mortivore666 on Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:48 am 
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Please do it. I think what the deck really needs is more people working on it.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:15 am 
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felbatista wrote:
I realized I have not contributed a lot to the community latter with actual Magic discussion, so I decided to share this list I'm working for some time now. I am looking to discuss the list, so feel free to suggest or criticize, whatever comes to your mind. I'll post the list and then add some random comments about it.

Anti-Hero
3 x Tormented Hero
4 x Satyr Hoplite
2 x Ulcerate
4 x Undying Evil
3 x Coordinated Assault
4 x Shock

4 x Child of Night
3 x Goblin Shortcutter
4 x Kiln Fiend

2 x Agent of the Fates
4 x Phyrexian Rager

2 x Cutthroat Maneuver

9 x Swamp
9 x Mountain
4 x Rakdos Guildgate


- I saw some movement in the Orzhov thread about a Heroic deck in those colors. I started my work with this list before looking over there, but I still like BR for the Heroic deck. Black is necessary, since it gives 2 good Heroic creatures. I like Red because it makes the deck much faster, gives the deck excelent removal with Shock and Coordinated Assault is broken.
- Actually, Assault was the card that sparked the idea of the deck. It's so good I even included Cutthroat Maneuver, a bad card, in the deck, just to give redundancy (Manuever is actually a really big blowout every time you manage to cast it, though).
- Tormented Hero triggers really matter. Target it as often as possible. The deck has ok reach for an aggro deck if you remember about this.
- Shock and Ulcerate are very good at clearing blockers.The life loss only matter in aggro matchups, and those are the matchups this deck is supposed to shine (It's very fast and excellent in creature combat)
- Goblin Shortcutter was the most recent addition, replacing Bloodcrazed Neonate. Neonate felt more like a SB card for control matchups. The goblin helps with midrange decks (the bane of your existence), while still having a passable body.
- I see a lot of people taking the steal/sac route for Rakdos (which I tried, but found rather clunky), which already makes this deck kind of Uncommon. Still, when I thought more people would be trying a similar deck, my bet was that the "innovation" I brought to the table was the Kiln Fiend technology (I'm not sure if it really is. If someone was doing something similar, please say so. I want to discuss it :D). Fiend here is basically a Heroic creature, but better. It's awesome with your 2 best enablers (Assault and Undying Evil), grows even if you're just clearing blockers, and people respect it's activations a lot. It also gives you very explosive turns, when you just kill someone out of nowhere. Great card in the deck.
- Phyrexian Rager looks bad, but you need to get the extra gas, and the body never hurts.
- Agent of the Fates is clunky, but a necessary evil. It can take over games all by itself. You have to live with the fact that it makes your mana worse, which brings us to the next point.
- The mana is shaky. I tried first with no guildgates, but hitting double black on turn 3 was hard, and I couldn't skew it too much because a lot of my early games is Red. I change to 4 gates and it improved. Gates are kind of 1-drops that I don't want to see multiples, so maybe cutting one is the right thing. I'm not going to 21 lands, though. It's not worth it.
- Thinking about ways to improve the manabase, I thought about Bloodghast. Replacing a pair of Red 2-drops for him would let me replace some Mountains with Swamps. He's good at putting pressure, makes late land draws better, and it's very easy to activate his Haste here. Problem is, I feel I would have to cut the Fiends to acomodate him, and I think I would lose a lot of power with that. Thoughts?
- The deck is good at punishing your opponent for bad draws. You get a lot of free wins with this. Aggro and Control are good matchups, unless the aggro deck is some kind of token build, which, unfortunately, is somewhat popular right now. Midrange is a problem, but the matchup improved with the Goblin.
- Again, I encourage everyone to chime in about the deck. It's a work in progress, and I really think it has potential, even if the environment is not exactly perfect for it right now.


Looks similar to my rakdos aura deck in the previous page, I like the auras over the Coordinated Assault, Undying Evil and Cutthroat Maneuver, since they can help you quickly overrun your opponent early in the game, and undying evil requires your creature to die at that moment (although it is a huge blowout with Agent of the Fates). Asphodel Wanderer and Drudge Skeletons are alot better than they look in the deck.

Your biggest weakness is bounce, but having 17 buffs should supply you enough to drop a creature again and go to town.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:46 am 
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I noticed you were in a similar boat. The 2 decks took very different directions, but the core creatures are there. I get a lot of value from Undying Evil, so using it even if the creature is not dying happens. Still, creature are dying all the time in this deck lol. Drudge Skeletons might be a thing. I'll look closer to it.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:19 pm 
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Can you afford to run Graveborn Muse in here? I've added her to my Orzhov Heroic deck and she is great to keep you gassed up.

Just from looking at the list, it seems your biggest problem is the lack of evasion. I'm not sure if Deviant Glee would be any good because I haven't played the deck, but I just think you need ways to force through damage beyond the three Shortcutters and your cheap removal spells.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:50 pm 
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I'm thinking about her, but I'm not sure how often she would come and not eat a removal spell instantly. Sure, this can happen with Agent or Fiend, but at least they don't cost 4. I normally don't want to reach 4 mana, and the only card I have over 3 is a "finisher". I dunno, might try her if I decide to not cut the 22nd land (which I'm more inclined at this point).

Sometimes it's hard to force damage through a barrage of spiders/hawks, but I'm not sure Glee would help enough. Besides, I can't really cut a creature for it, and any other change would mean replacing a card that's already there to do the same thing, but probably better. I need to stretch, though, that aside from dedicated token/weenie decks that are not trying to race you, getting damage through is not a big issue. Might be something I have to live with. Also, Tectonic Rift exists...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:56 pm 
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Dropping Another Deck, this one's balls to the walls:

DECK: Evil Heros

3 x Tormented Hero
4 x Satyr Hoplite
4 x Asphodel Wanderer

3 x Child of Night
4 x Drudge Skeletons

2 x Agent of the Fates
2 x Two-Headed Cerberus

2 x Brood Keeper

4 x Furor of the Bitten
4 x Deviant Glee
4 x Inferno Fist
3 x Lightning Talons

12 x Swamp
9 x Mountain


Drudge skeletons never looked so good...

Two-headed Cerberus is probably getting too greedy on the mana base, considering swapping with Liliana's Specter



I'm fairly certain until we get a bunch of expansions, every Rakdos deck is going to have a steal/sacrifice theme if you don't have preemies, so here we go.

0 (0): None

1 (4): 4x Dead Weight

2 (4): 2x Bloodghast, 2x Fling

3 (17): 2x Agent of the Fates, 2x Bloodflow Connoisseur, 4x Corpse Blockade, 2x Devouring Swarm, 4x Act of Treason, 3x Augur Spree

4 (4): Portent of Betrayal

5 (5): 1x Shadowborn Demon, 2x Indulgent Tormentor, 1x Stormbreath Dragon, 1x Burning Anger

6+ (1): 1x Inferno Titan

Lands (25): 13x Swamp, 8x Mountain, 4x Rakdos Guildgate

- 10 total sacrifice outlets, with 2 Connoisseurs, 2 Swarms, 4 Blockades, and 2 Flings. The reason to not max out on Fling is that if you steal and then Fling to the dome, you're 2-for-1ing yourself (though you effectively gave that creature double-strike if unimpeded) if you don't win the game on the spot, and if you have a situation where you can steal, hit and then Fling the creature at a different creature, that's still just 2-for-2. I split the Connoisseurs and Swarms the way I did because Connoisseurs really don't pressure your opponent at all for at least a few turns, but are better with Bloodghasts. The Swarms at least put a little bit of pressure on your opponent

- A singleton Burning Anger because it's obviously insane with Agent of the Fates (the creature deals the damage, not the aura itself) and Corpse Blockade if you have some fodder to feed it

- If you're running Rakdos, I don't really feel the need for any burn spells, which is why I went with Dead Weight over Shock. At least the Weight still pulls its weight in the late game by shrinking a creature it can't kill, unlike Shock.

- The 3x Augur Sprees can be Tribute to Hunger or Assassinate depending on your preference. I'm going with the Sprees over the other 2 because most times it should kill most things that an Assassinate would but at instant speed and without taking a hit in the first place (and it targets unlike the Tribute). Also, I haven't yet, but I want to live the dream of Augur'ing something that'll live through it, hit, and Fling

- You could probably build a better Rakdos control deck with the premiums, but I don't think you can really better the steal/sacrifice sub-theme with any of the cards there (but on the flipside, you could probably construct a shell where something like Anger of the Gods would shine, unlike here, where it would be terrible.


So imo these are the "top 2" Rakdos builds. What do you guys think? I really like both archetypes but what do you think is better? Why do you think one is better than the other and in which ways would one be better

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:56 pm 
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Glitched double-post deleted.

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Last edited by minddrifter on Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:27 pm 
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The one built by Mobius is top notch and runs great. Haven't yet tried the other one though :)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:44 pm 
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Try the updated one if you do, it's a little more consistant than the old one it's titled "Blessed Anarchy"

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:48 pm 
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Try the updated one if you do, it's a little more consistant than the old one it's titled "Blessed Anarchy"

You gave it a different name so I didn't realize it was an updated version of your previous build.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:04 am 
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Nebula wrote:
So imo these are the "top 2" Rakdos builds. What do you guys think? I really like both archetypes but what do you think is better? Why do you think one is better than the other and in which ways would one be better


Well, I'm going to say mine, of course :D

Between the two you listed, though, I have to say I'm really not a fan of the steal/sac archetype. You'll be playing a lot of bad card just because they're supposed to work together, and then you're spending a lot of cards and the payoff is not even that great. If you want to squeeze more value from your Act of Treasons, play them with Cloudshift. So, I'm voting on Bob's deck. But really, play mine. Pretty please :)

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:22 am 
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I played the list for about ten games fel, and it was okay, but you were right about the mana. You have red and black one-drops and you're playing the full set of gates and that really slowed me down a few times because the deck wants to be fast. I also wasn't a fan of the nonbo between Undying Evil and Satyr Hoplite. Child of Night also felt pretty lackluster. Lastly, I feel that the deck just runs out of cards way too fast. I did have a couple of strong draws, but there were a lot of clunky ones where my opponent stabilized because I was a turn too slow or just plain out of cards. If the deck doesn't win by the fifth or sixth turn, it gets outclassed pretty quickly.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:37 am 
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I'm going to say neither of them, because I don't like steal and sacrifice and when I played bob's Regeneration/Heroic/Aura deck, I as having all my regenerating skeletons hit by a Banisher Priest or Flesh to Dust or Anger of the Gods the second I got an aura on them. There is way too much non-standard damage that people are using to even consider Regeneration a good mechanic right now. Shame ~_~


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:36 pm 
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Blood&Fire

Lands
Rakdos Guildgate x4
Swamp x9
Mountain x9

Spells
Ulcerate x3
Shock x3
Undying Evil x4
Act of Treason x4
Tribute to Hunger x2
Auger Spree x4

Creatures
Goblin Arsonist x4
Bloodghast x2
Goblin Rabblemaster x2
Bloodflow Connoisseur x4
Agent of the Fates x2
Graveborn Muse x1
Shadowborn Demon x1
Charmbreaker Devils x1
Inferno Titan x1

This deck is kinda built around Bloodflow Connoisseur. Act of Treason their guys. Swing. Then eat them. Goblin Rabblemaster by himself can be a win condition but he also supplies food for Bloodflow Connoisseur too. As does Bloodghast. Swing. Eat. Land. Repeat.

Undying Evil has been a surprisingly good card too. Keeps Goblin Rabblemaster going and stronger. And is strong with the Goblin Arsonists too. Not to mention the obvious Agent of the Fates. And this makes everyone strong if you may need to eat them too. With Bloodflow Connoisseur, Undying Evil almost becomes a better version of Cloudshift. Just to bad it doesn't work on Bloodflow Connoisseur herself really.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:02 am 
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felbatista wrote:

Felba, wondering about your results. I'm not happy with Rakdos so far. I've been toying with a pretty similar list for a while (with some Bloodcrazed Neonates and Bloodghast instead of Child of Nights) with pretty meh results (around .500). It should be pretty good against bad draws and non-token aggro, but I don't see many aggro decks online atm. Against lifegain, tokens, ramp and graveyard decks I was usually not fast enough as guildgates slowed me down, had mana issues with double black guys and the low toughness of my creatures made me too vulnerable to bad trades (tokens, visionary etc.) and removal when I don't had a spell ready.
You could consider Furor of the Bitten for more speed and toughness which I tested with decent success. Guttersnipe or rabblemaster instead of Rager could give you more tempo as well. Besides that I don't see much room for improvements in this pool unfortunately.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:37 am 
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I kind of agree, overall Rakdos is kind of lacking compared to other combinations.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:22 pm 
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Nebula wrote:
I kind of agree, overall Rakdos is kind of lacking compared to other combinations.

I disagree. I find Rakdos steal and sacrifice decks to be brutal.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:25 pm 
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That depends on what you're playing; against midrange or fatty decks, they're amazing, but against weenies or control they're generally weak.

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