Glad you like it

No Void Snare to bounce the Ascension, huh? Maybe I should increase the amount of Snares... Alternatively, you could always fetch it from GY with Archaeomancer if you're lucky enough to have both cards.

I actually had one in my opening hand, but I wasted it early on an Elder of Laurels (which he later discarded) when I probably didn't need to. I just wanted to make him waste his turn casting it again, but he played the ascension instead

Oh, I see Well, you can't foresee everything. I included Snare as 2-of just to save it for the strongest enchantment since I don't run any counter-spells. Though (considering the cost), it very tempting to spend it on some creature, I agree

I love to run discard, but in a lot of cases, you have nothing for them to discard...that's where the bounce comes in. Man, we need Liliana's Caress or Megrim

I run all 12 bounce as it enables other things.
1- Shadowborn Demon repeating his "death blows". Had one match where he killed 6 with etb but I never had to sacrifice him or another creature. I even used 2 vapor snags on him.
2- Freedom of movement, fewer obstacles-This enables combat draws like Bident of Thassa or even Scroll Thief to cash in
3- other creatures etb effects. Such as Liliana's Specter
4- Easy instants and Sorceries for Talrand to 'cash in' on.
5-Protection from removal for your creatures

You can even add another "bounce" with Quickling.

Bounce also has a huge psychological effect. It-will-piss-them-off and they will make mistakes. I've seen some just throw the towel in despite having some good plays left. I learned this with Bounce & Boon and Up to Mischief from last year's version.

For some reason, it's hard in this meta to save mana for counter spells. Bounce is the best bet until we get more control.

Creatures with etb effects seem the best option for Dimir at this point, until we get better stuff.

Right now, Dimir's weaknesses are mostly the damned tokens. I'm trying to work Dead Weight in with latest build. With Elixir of Immortality used as often as possible, we can get the spells back to use again.

Edit: If we get Infest or Evacuation sometime in the future, we in this thread should throw a party. I play all colors, but Dimir's guild is my favorite.

IMHO, Elixir is kinda nonbo with Archaeomancer and I like to fetch my cards back with him. Can also always bounce him back.

Yeah, maximizing the use of EtB effects is another reason I included Rager over the Scroll Thief. I summon Thief and I don't gain a card. If I fail to bounce ALL of the opponents creatures I still don't get a card next turn. Now that's 0 cards in 2 turns for 3 mana and 1/3. Now, Rager guarantees me a card for 3 mana and he's a 2/2... So I still prefer my Ragers

Bident's also not so reliable with less than 20 creatures or a relialbe way to produce tokens. I've not much experience with it though.

Infest or any other "mild" sweeper would make this kind of decks dangerously effective tier because it's only weakness is tokens.

I don't think I trust Shadowborn enough in this deck with only 16 creatures. Not sure I'd like to spend bounce on him.

Dark Ascent

8 Island
10 Swamp
4 Dimir Guildgate

4 x Vapor Snag
2 x Void Snare
3 x Quickling
4 x Voyage's End
3 x Pestermite(Thinking of replacing with Niblis of the Breath)
2 x Bident of Thassa
3 x Inspiration(Will replace with Courier's Capsule when we get them in Alara)

1 x Suffer the Past
4 x Dead Weight
4 x Liliana's Specter
1 x Shadowborn Demon
2 x Indulgent Tormentor
2 x Rune-Scarred Demon
1 x Griselbrand

2 x Elixir of Immortality

Shadowborn, in this build, runs rampant.

Very few have discovered the wonder that is Bident of Thassa. Not only for it's draw(1 drew 15 spells in my last match)but the ability to force opponent to attack. Most who I've used the force on, don't realize what happened. they don't know the card! Oh please charge into my demons elvish visionary!

Every creature in this build has flying. Simply bounce their flyers when you're ready to attack, and watch the spells roll in.

22 lands seems perfect for this build. Yes, this one is going to go the late rounds, but you'll be in control for all but the first couple of turns(But it seems half the time you're in control here too). Dead Weight is simply for tokens. Use them and get them back later with elixir.

It'll seem like a war of attrition, but it works. I playtested it against my own token build and despite a couple of early hiccups, it beat it every time.

Uh oh...the gods of nasty tricks just smiled on me...got an idea.

Ok, took some testing to do it. I'll bet someone has already mentioned it somewhere though.

Used an undying on shadowborn just before he had to sacrifice himself, he came right back to etb another creature.

B/U Hand Control

I've only played a few games with this deck so far, made a few tweaks to make it a little faster. It's doing pretty well but I could def use some tips on how to make it more efficient

Creatures

Pharika's Chosen X 4
Giant Scorpion X 2
Kraken Hatchling X 2
Liliana's Specter x 2
Indulgent Tormentor
Rune-Scarred Demon x2
Talrand, Sky Summoner x2
Chasm Skulker x2
Soul of Ravinika

Spells:

Mind Rot x2
Think Twice x 4
Suffer the Past x2
Tribute to Hunger x2
Flesh to Dust
Monomania
Inspiration
Traveler's Amulet x2
Nullify

Swamp x15
Island x10

The premise of the deck is control with a focus on hand disruption. The win conditions are the heavy hitters but mainly focused on the 2 rune-scarred demons and suffer the past. The hand disruption and deathtouch creatures help fill the opponents graveyard, then I bring out a demon, search for suffer the past and hit for the win. Unless it's not going to be enough damage for the win, then ill use the demon, search for another demon, then search for the suffer the past.

The kraken hatchlings are basically just place holders right now till I find something better, suggestions? Also some suggestions on the quantities for mind rot and lilianas specter would be great too. Thanks

I'm no expert, so take this with a grain of salt. From my experience, traveler's amulet doesn't do all that much and is not really needed in a 2-color deck. Like you said, I would probably take the Kraken's out too.

Undying Evil could be good to get your deathtouchers back, as well as Specters to make them discard again.

Dinrova Horror is just a good card in general and fits nicely and helps you deal with threats for a turn or two.

Tribute might not be great here as you don't have a lot of other ways to deal with creatures, so you opp will probably just sac a token or tiny creature.

Just a couple of thoughts.

I like the undying evil idea, I think I'll switch that in for the krakens. I had dinrova horror in there but his lack of flying and power doesn't make him enough of a threat for late game damage. Good point on tribute, perhaps I'll replace that with Dead Weight

The thing, I think, to remember about Horror is that he generally comes down at a time when your opponent won't have many cards left. Often that means that whatever you return to that hand will have to be discarded, or will force discard of another card your opponent wanted to hang on to. It is also great with Undying Evil, and can return a powered up Ascension, Wand, or voltroned up creature that could otherwise prove difficult to deal with.

@shadowcran
I am extremely new to the world of magic and I am reading up these deck list forums to get an idea of how people build decks and why. I try to make sense of what they are doing by myself so that one day I can build my own, hopefully

I do enjoy blue and black the most, hence this post to get some things clarified and answered wrt your dark ascent build. I might be asking silly stuff, that's simply because I am new and still learning, apologies in advance for that.

1. I do not have premiums, so I can probably do 2 void snares more instead of vapour snags. So the 2 free slots - would artful dodge or fleeting distractions be good substitutes?
2. You have already presented the alternative for pestermites, so that's cool.
Now for my questions:
1. The bounce effects - is the aim if the deck to run it on your own creatures to exploit etb or to gain space to attack them by removing their blockers.
2. Quickling - when this enters you generally bounce something like lilliana's spectre to exploit the etb again right?

Not sure if I am asking the right questions but I guess there is only one way to learn

Peace
Ananth

I don't think any of us claim to be experts, hehe, but as someone who has decades of mtg experience (yes, that is decades plural, I'm old, lol) the advice concerning Traveler's Amulet being garbage is very sound. I wouldn't include it in any deck no matter how many colors, lol. If we literally had no other ways to fix our lands I would use them, but we have plenty to not have to use them here.

Well, I got a U/B control deck to work. It plays a lot like my Wall of Denial deck, but with black for discard, spot removal, and Dinrova Horrors. Chasm Skulker and Talrand are becoming favorites of mine. They're great in blue based control decks running counterspells.

Thought Drain

Creatures - 9
2 Chasm Skulker
3 Giant Scorpion
2 Talrand, Sky Summoner
2 Dinrova Horror

Other Spells - 27
3 Ulcerate
4 Voyage's End
4 Think Twice
3 Negate
3 Nullify
3 Dissolve
3 Mind Rot
2 Inspiration
2 Flesh to Dust

Land - 24
4 Dimir Guildgate
13 Island
7 Swamp

yep, you asked the right questions. Ask all you want and I'll do what I can.

Don't know how to say it..I "Third" this motion?
I haven't seen the need for Traveler's Amulet in any 2 or 3 color...or even the one 5 color I made(I did use the ingots and meteorites though, 3 x each)
However, in any 2 color I've yet to need any of these mana fixers.

To answer other guy's post.
Chasm Skulker is indeed a beast. After he's got about 8 counters, you're practically begging your opponent to kill it for all those 1/1 islandwalkers.

Traveler's Amulet is unplayable in Limited.

Mind Disection
Premium Deck


Land (24)
11 x Island
10 x Swamp
3 x Dimir Guildgate

Blue Cards (20)
4 x Vapor Snag
2 x Void Snare
3 x Quickling
4 x Voyage's End
4 x Think Twice
2 x Talrand, Sky Summoner
1 x Time Warp

Black Cards (13)
2 x Suffer the Past
4 x Liliana's Specter
4 x Mind Rot
1 x Shadowborn Demon
2 x Indulgent Tormentor

Multicolor Cards (3)
3 x Dinrova Horror

---

Information
This deck is all about hand destruction. Make your opponent discard with Mind Rot and Liliana's Specter and reuse Liliana's Specter by returning it to your hand. If you find yourself with discard and your opponent has nothing in their hand, no problem... just bounce their stuff back into their hand and make them discard it.

Edits
Edit 1: Removed unnecessary information and deck stats. Deck had trouble with self-mill decks so some changes were made. Please note that the inclusion of Shadowborn Demon is a direct result of reading Shadowcran's thoughts on him and how he works with bounce.
-2 Void Snare
-2 Chasm Skulker
-2 Bident of Thassa
+2 Talrand, Sky Summoner
+1 Time Warp
+2 Suffer the Past
+1 Shadowborn Demon

Okay, so, after additional testing (half an hour in the morning with coffee, yay!) I've come to the (obvious) conclusion that bounce/discard build sucks HARD vs either decks relying on creatures with EtB effects (Elvish Visionary, Phyrexian Rager, Liliana's Specter, Saruli Gatekeepers, Rune-Scarred Demon, Pelakka Wurm) or ramping decks with late game EtB bombs like above mentioned Pelakka, Rune-Scarred or Inferno Titan. I mean, it's pefect when he has 1 card in hand, you bounce his Pelakka and then Mind Rot him but we don't live in a perfect world, do we?

I see two ways to solve this problem: add removal to get rid of these annoying EtBs once and for all OR add a couple of counter spells to get rid of them after the initial bouncing. Now, after your comment about Shadowborn, I recalled that he's an option too, but not so reliable, IMHO - I'm not 100% sure I'll have Quickling or any other bounce when needed and he's only a singleton...

When I put this deck together, it was solely based on Mind Rot and looking at how to get any value out of it late game.

I see a few others had bounce and discard ideas so this was my take on it.

Contains Premiums

4 x Vapor Snag
3 x Void Snare
4 x Voyage's End
2 x Talrand, Sky Summoner
4 x Child of Night
4 x Liliana's Specter
2 x Indulgent Tormentor
3 x Dinrova Horror
4 x Undying Evil
4 x Mind Rot
2 x Suffer the Past
14 x Swamp
10 x Island


I've been messing around w/ Dinrova Horror quantities lately and usually run 2 with an additional Suffer the Past. Although Suffer the Past has some great uses and a viable wincon, I'm currently liking the additional Horror which gives me one more chance to draw it in a match, it's a body on the field and it's great against most topdecks. I'm sure it will remain this way until i consistently hit the 3rd copy and grumble.


elk

Child of Night looks a little... Strange here Is he for early pressure? Also, I'd change Undying Evil to more card draw since you lack any.