I tried sending a message to the "Jund Runner" but his profile is full of Asian symbols, so I don't know if he speaks English or not. He didn't respond to my message at all.

There's no reason not to run the Visionaries in the deck, as since they don't cost a card slot, they're really only competing at the CMC slot, and there's nothing else really edging for space as a 2-drop in Jund. It gives some minor defense early, when you might not have anything else to cast anyway, and is a much better top-deck late-game than other low-drop. It doesn't dilute anything, unless you plan on going 60-cards deep in your game. Quite frankly, at 2-mana they're a little OP, not because they have some huge upside, but because they effectively have no downside.

opponent casts Genesis Hydra for exactly 6

The Hydra finds a second Warstorm Surge!!

Genesis Hydra ETB triggering both! (6 + 6 damage!)

While I agree with what you're saying about Visionaries on a general level, I still don't think they belong in Nebula's list. He has removal as his early game plan, into midgame defense and recovery into top-end bombs. If you were to slot them into his list, what would you remove for them?

Theoretically, anything. Unless you're jammed at the 2-drop, the visionary just draws your next card anyway, so it's going from 60 to 56 cards in the same way you cut from 64 to 60 given the option. You can adjust your land/removal/bomb/creature/spell ratio accordingly.

In his particular list, I'd probably cut Sphinx-Bone Wand, Jailbreaker, and/or Auger Spree. Jailbreaker is one of the weakest cards in general for the list, the Wand fits much better in a Blue control shell than Jund, and I don't think you need a full 4 Auger Sprees - I don't find there are enough creatures that need dealing with for 3 CMC that wouldn't be handled by Flesh to Dust, Shock, Ground Assault, Anger, or other removal options that weren't included. It's a narrow range that consists of creatures both too tough for Shock, and that drop on turn 3-5 when you're able to cast Auger, but unable to drop a Pelakka Wurm.

I am confused by this. So I am understanding you, you would like to cut useful cards for a card that allows you to draw into your useful cards?

I think you are really underestimating Jailbreaker. A 4/4 for 4 is a wrecking ball in this current meta. Spree is also an amazing card that can kill nearly anything outside a few late-game bombs (and combined with a Shock or blocking it can do that as well). It can also be used to beef up any of my late game bombs to get that extra few damage in for the win. I can't see Visionary actually being a good replacement for any of those.

What is the main reason for running Visionary here? If it is for early game chumping, it just isn't needed with all the other options to get rid of any early game threat. What threats do get through are mitigated with lifegain from Gatekeepers and Pelakkas.

With all the spells around the Wand is a great finisher and after the first spell or 2 it is extremely powerful.

Do I want to draw a 1/1, waste 2 lands, and hope my next draw is better or do I want to draw something that can get rid of their threat or something that can be a real threat on the board on my end? Like Hakeem said, Visionary is really good in a lot of deck builds around, but this build just doesn't need them.

hexstar, by yoir logic, every cantrip is an auto include! :<

Visionary will chump block and die (not even, if the other creature has trample or flying or if the opponent has Sparkmage) while watering down your deck so you draw more lands. Granted you could lower your land count to counteract this, so now get land screwed whenever you dont draw visionaries, or waste tempo on turn 2 and 3 casting visionaries. You will get keep a 2 land hand, play visionary and not draw a land (or just draw another visionary) because you regrettably treated visionary as a land.

I run visionary in GB, since it counts as a creature for spider spawning, and enables rescue ftom the underworld. And in GW, because it feuls Beastmaster ascension and counts toward Convoke, not to mention Selesnya Evangel. Its also auto include in any deck with Species Gorger, both because its a draw engine and because its a cheap way to keep Gorger in play. But if the visionary doesn't bring any such interactions to your deck then its reasonable not to run it_ especially if you already have two drops or run cards such as shock, bolt, dead weight, ulcerate, Sparkmage, Gomazoa, or the like.

granted, I haven't seen the list being discussed, before writing this

edit: I'll admit this, that visionary might be good in this meta simply because Raise the Alarm and Krenko's Command are commonly played. (as are Satyr Wayfinder and other Visionaries)

This is the list rock. ;P Some notes about it on the original.

I think I went back to 24 lands and added a 4th Shock. I've been messing with that 1 last spot, lol. The original had a Charmbreaker that I took out for the 5th Mountain that I took out for the 4th Shock. Still, it runs pretty good however you use that last slot.

I like the current list better.

I still think 25 land is better, but cutting a six-drop for a one-drop removal spell is fine, I guess.

Lol, I swear as soon as I added that extra Mountain I was getting flooded left and right. I'm sure it was just coincidence but I was like "screw it, I'll just put in a 4th Shock" and it has been working great, haha. Of course then I'll go 3 games in a row staying at 2 lands for 12 turns and go "Ok, I'm putting that damn mountain back in".

Bad stacks will happen and from my experiences with duels, mana flood happens far more frequently for my matches. I think this is why I get away with 22 lands in my Bant.

This is by no means a finished deck, but here is my current Jund.

5 swamp
5 mountain
14 forest

1 shadowborn demon
2 indulgent tormentor
2 rune-scarred demon

2 anger of the gods
1 stormbreath dragon
1 inferno titan

4 elvish pioneer
2 genesis hydra
4 cultivate
2 hunter's prowess
3 pelakka wurm

4 traveler's amulet
3 darksteel ingot

3 augur spree
2 treasured find


I would like some advice because I seem to have some serious issues with mana flood here.

How is "No guildgates" doing for ya, Jack? I think they are okay in 3-color deck as far as you're running a slow build which can skip a few turns in order to acquire all the colors (and amounts of colors) needed. Plus, Gatekeepers usually restore all the life you lost while dropping the Guildgates. 3-color lands would be so cool when Alara DLC finally hits...

Also, I'd cut Ingots if I were mana flooded like you say And I'd add more 1-3cmc creatures, but that's just my approach to Jund.

Here is where my current JUND build is sitting

No Plekka Aloud

3 x Tribute to Hunger
4 x Ogre Jailbreaker
1 x Shadowborn Demon
2 x Rune-Scarred Demon
4 x Shock
1 x Volcanic Geyser
2 x Anger of the Gods
3 x Cunning Sparkmage
1 x Inferno Titan
4 x Cultivate
1 x Sphinx-Bone Wand
1 x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 x Auger Spree
3 x Treasure Find
3 x Ground Assualt

6 x Swamp
6 x Mountain
4 x Forest
4 x Rakdos Guildgate
4 x Gruul Guildgate


I did have guttersnipe in the build previously but I decided to try running without him for a while and I don't notice much change. This deck may change a little over further play testing.

2best, why not Pelakka Wurm? I see it in the title, but that doesn't mean I'll ever understand it! D:

No guildgates works like buttered bread. In fact, removing one of the amulet's got rid of the clogginess issue. I forget what I put it right now as it's a couple days later. But it was big and stompy.

But seriously. No issues with fixing. Just.... getting too many lands in general.

I see. I remember how your "No Evolving Wilds" approach turned out great for me in last year's Dimir but I'm kinda afraid to try it in 3-color deck... You might have a point, though.



No Guildkeepers either. I'd say, his main goal is to over-damage the opponent ASAP, not relying on lifegain or card draw. I tried to pursue all of these in my own build To each his own, I guess!

I play 14 forests, 4 elvish pioneer, 4 cultivate, 3 traveler's amulet, and 3 darksteel ingot.

This A) ensures I always have green, B) ensures I almost always have some sort of ramp (ingot counts), and C) ensures that I almost always have some sort of fixing.

All in my opening hand. ..... It works. And...... getting a 5 drop turn 3 or 4 lets you race aggro. Since I wanted to make stompy (because I like stompy), I felt this was the best way to do it.

I also play A LOT of big stompy to ramp to. So I'm likely to get one of those as well.

Oh and I remember now.

-1 traveler's amulet
+1 augur spree




I am sure some aggro or control deck will do Jund more competitively...... but the deck is very fun and I am sure with a little more testing I could make it competitive enough to satisfy my standards.

The only problem now is getting the motivation to log in. Starcraft 2 addicting.