The ordeal is an ordeal. It drops free 1/1 counters on a creature of our choice. And if we get and crack it late, well, that's thinning for you and there's negligable mill in Theros limited (Thassa's Bounty, Returned Centaur) so we don't have to worry about decking. Instead, we get closer to monsterous and draw more gas.

Ordeal it is then.

I like Ordeal too. Might could possibly get Courser back in a real draft.

You're drafting against friends

Ordeal.

PICK THE GAME-WINNING FLYER THIS IS ONLY PICK 3

Horizon Scholar. Though I know it's a doomed pick by now. If you're prioritizing auras over 4/4 flyers in limited you're doing something very, very wrong.

I agree.

Horizon Scholar. 4/4 flyer is money in limited, being able to Scry 2 on turn 5/6 can be game-changing advantage, we already picked something that can help ramp into it and it's easy to cast with only one U in its casting cost.

Nothing else in the pack is really any good. I think the green Ordeal flat out sucks. By the time you have something decent to put it on, you don't need the ramp anymore. Low reward for a high risk 2-1.

Horizon scholar!

I think ordeal is an awful pick here.

Horizon scholar for me.

Horizon Scholar is too little, too late. a 4/4 flyer isn't really dominant: strong, but not dominant. Contrast Nessian Asp which bests it cheaper and for a little more becomes *really* game-dominant at 8/9.


Further, ordeal doesn't put us in a third color.

We're not in a color. We're in the very beginning of a pack. If green or red dries up over the next couple of picks, are you going to continue to draft them? Of course not. Well, hopefully not.

The "Nessian Asp is better" argument is akin to the "dies to removal" argument, except much narrower.

The best card in the pack is scholar. Windmill slam it and don't concoct best case scenarios where the crappiest ordeal is suddenly good.

I'm convinced Horizon Scholar is the pick here because 1) its easily splashable, especially considering our first pick, and 2) ordeals are nice, but we passed up the chance to be a focused aggro deck when our first 2 picks were the caryatid and purphoros, and the green one is the least useful overall.

Chill, it's only the 3rd pick.

No, it's not. The Scholar is dumb, overcost muscle in a set that provides better dumb muscle cheaper and without splashing on a reliable basis. It is a card that I rarely want to run because there are better things do do with six mana if you're going to go there, and is absolutely not worth splashing for.

There have been formats were just "Being a 4/4 flyer" is good enough to be a high pick, or even an auto-include. Theros is not one of them. Theros' high end will chew up horizon scholar and spit it out as so much six-mana chaff. Ordeal makes our deck stronger no matter what and starts to cement our hold over green at this table.

basically if we had stuck to either green or to either red I would pick the 4/4. but we didn't, we picked a strong green card and a strong red card. we can either pick a good green card that will definitely get played, or sell off one of our good picks, hell maybe our first pick, for a pretty fine card. I don't really like that.

I mean I love Air Elemental but I still like the good card that doesn't invalidate one of our previous picks. besides, we'll have our huge unreasonable creatures, its not like there are any shortage of those. are you guys the kind of people who refuse to pass a vulpine goliath or something?

Just look at ordeal vs. scholar. Will ordeal pull you from behind? No. Will scholar? Big, dumb, evasive muscle can do that, especially when you can control your next two draws. Will ordeal break parity? No. Because you'll attack into a similar board and get two-for-oned. Will scholar? Well, big, dumb, evasive muscle can fly over board stalls, and getting to control your next two draws can further assist. Will ordeal close the deal if you're ahead? No, bc its effect doesn't matter if you're ahead. Scholar can pound that nail in the coffin.

Additionally, it's just unhelpful to lock yourself into two colors by pick 2. That may have been a passable strategy during DGM drafting and somewhat before that in GTC and RTR, but it's not anymore.

And finally, we're not sending signals. Because it's too early. Evidenced by the zilch amount of discussion anyone's had from last pick and this pick about "signals." People who worry about sending signals to the person that's got dibs on one pack out of three don't get drafting.

Ultimately, there will never be a format where a three-turn investment on a potential two-for-one aura that's also a horrible mid- to late-game top deck is better than a 4/4 flyer that lets you ship mana flood to the bottom of your library.

Will ordeal sit dead in your hand for most of the game if we build fast? No, you cast it and get value. Will Scholar? Yes. Will ordeal actually help us get to a comfortable mana supply and thin our deck for the late game? Yes. Will Scholar? Nope. That scry two can ovten be irrelevant. Will Ordeal apply pressure early? Absolutley -- even cast on a 1/1 it can make a powerhouse if you do it early enough. Will Scholar? Nope. He sits around until 6.

And Ordeal will help break parity. If you have a 6/6 and I have a 6/6 and I throw an ordeal on mine, I squash your guy. I squash him flat. It's at least as good as throwing more midrange chaff onto the field. But you know, if we have an ordeal in our deck rather than a horizon scholar, we can be ahead in the first place rather than getting into that topdeck-drop-go nightmare.

I think you're badly underestimating the value of the ordeals, especially Nylea that does about as much to fix your draws (getting 2 land out of the way) as does the scry 2 from scholar in its best case scenario.

If you open with Ordeal, you drop it on your earliest play, beat face, and get land. If you topdeck ordeal, you have options to drop it where you can capitalize and potentially get thinning -- not the best but still a relevant play, especially if you're looking towards an expensive monsterous. If you topdeck a late scholar you drop it and maybe just maybe an expensive Air Elemental will get you out of your jam. I doubt it will, but who knows? Sometimes any evasion will do it. If you open with Scholar... it sits there. It rots in your hand until you get the mana to play it, at which point it COULD help you out, or the game could be over or basically decided in a way it might not have been if you were able to make a relevant play on curve.

Getting out of bad situations is good. Reducing the possibility of getting into a bad situation in the first place by getting a big beater and breaking out of a mana screw is better.

That's BCS thinking. It's fine on T2 or T3. But playing something because it's good when the likelihood of having it in your opening hand is minimal is ridiculous. I fully understand the value of ordeals. But we're not playing any one drops in RG when we're trying to ramp, and our T2 stuff is currently ramp or a bevvy of mediocre creatures. What do you magically plan to nab in the next couple of packs that makes an amazing ordeal target that you'll get to cast on curve every game?

None. Nothing. Zip. Zero. Nada. On T2 we want to play Caryatid into a 4-drop, not a crappy 2 drop into a mediocre aura T3. Don't talk to me of possibilities when you're specking we'll have serviceable two drops that we'll draw along with this in enough games for it to matter. Ordeal is not a P3.

I'm going to throw my vote in for Nessian courser. I'm not sure the format is slow enough for horizon scholar, and besides, we're already in green, which has plenty of lategame muscle if we need it. Courser is a solid, efficient beater that can smash face early or hold the fort until we can drop a big green fatty. Curve-toppers are replaceable, curve-fillers aren't. As for ordeal of nylea, I'm not going to take a creature pumper over an efficient body unless it's MUCH better than this one.