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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:08 am 
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Yup, I remember that thread, it was pretty useful :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:48 pm 
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Shadowcran wrote:
Deathtouch(Name needs work, please give a suggestion)

(This deck started out as I was making a mono black and ended up here)

10 Swamp
6 Forest
4 Golgari Guildgate
(deck has so many low mana threats, it doesn't really need 22 to 24 lands)

4 x Pharika's Chosen(1 mana deathtouch...prey upon with it and kill a 20/20, doesn't matter)
4 x Undying Evil(very useful and a kill trigger when paired with Agent of the Fates)
4 x Child of Night(With Undying and Titanic Growth, can do monumental heal/hurt)
2 x Agent of the Fates (Why I haven't seen anyone else run this, I'll never know)
4 x Giant Scorpion(are you starting to get the theme here?)
4 x Phyrexian Rager(not much, but oh well, it's a draw)
3 x Paragon of the Open Grave
1 x Shadowborn Demon
2 x Indulgent Tormentor

4 x Prey Upon(use this with agent on lower creature and kill 2 with one)
4 x Elvish Visionary(draw and fodder)
4 x Titanic Growth (Agent trigger, Child enhancer, more damage)


Very interesting deck - how is it performing?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:58 pm 
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Also, Shadowcran - what specifically were you finding the deck missing with only Black? The Instants/Spells?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:20 pm 
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Prey Upon specifically, Titanic Growth for both triggering Agent of the Fates' ability and to up child of Night if nothing else. THe elf for the reason listed.

Seriously, Agent of the Fates is a gold mine that was just sitting there looking like it was filled with low grade coal.

The deck works...extremely well. As does a Rakdos utilizing Agent. Most of the forum knows I stink at aggro and look for any advantage I can when making those decks.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:54 pm 
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Do enchantments trigger Agent?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:22 pm 
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JamesT wrote:
Do enchantments trigger Agent?


Yes. Enchants, sorcery, and Instants that can target him.

His ability is why he's a "rare".

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 Post subject: Re: Golgari
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:07 pm 
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I've been trying to get these achievement hunting builds to be viable against real people and decided to go all in on Nemesis and Spiders:

0 (0): None

1 (4): 4x Elvish Pioneer

2 (8): 4x Elvish Visionary, 4x Satyr Wayfinder

3 (8): 4x Necromancer's Assisstant, 4x Cultivate

4 (0): None

5 (9): 1x Shadowborn Demon, 3x Rescue from the Underworld, 2x Arbor Colossus, 3x Spider Spawning

6+ (8): 2x Rune-Scarred Demon, 1x Griselbrand, 3x Nemesis of Mortals, 2x Pelakka Wurm

Lands: 8 Swamp, 15x Forest

Random notes:

- NO GUILDGATES. They are total nonbos with Elvish Pioneer and Cultivate. You don't even need black mana until turn 3 (if you need it at all) which is why I have it skewed so heavily. In this deck, Cultivate might as well read "get 2 Swamps". 23 was the sweetspot for me. Any higher and you gotta start removing threats/enablers, and any lower...well, we all know how wonderful getting land-cut is.

- No removal outside of Shadowborn (and a Monstrous Colossus for fliers) sadly. There's simply no room. The goal with a deck like this is to brute force your way to victory with an army of spiders or value-giants. This is a deck that WANTS to chump block with it's early drops (well, you want to save at least one dude if you have Rescue in hand). Pelakka also lets you recover from an early beating.

- There's also simply no room for stuff like Bloodghast and Vengevine, and even if there were I wouldn't want to run them. You WANT stuff in the grave unless you're Rescuing something huge. Ghasts can't even block and the 1-of Vine is pretty mediocre when compared to what the deck wants to be doing (making lots of spiders or big monsters)

- Treasured Find: It works in reverse, right? One man's treasure is another man's trash? It's just so incredibly clunky and inefficient AND putting stuff like that in a deck like this means you have to cut creatures (you're gonna cut Rescues, Cultivates, and Spawnings for this!?!?) which defeats the purpose of the shell

- I obviously used this build to do the Nemesis, Shadowborn, and 20 Creatures in your Grave achievements

Questions?


You know what I hate about your builds the most, Mobius? They are so perfectly built I can't change any thing in them :) This one runs like clockwork and doesn't allow any tweaks to be done :) I've tried changing bombs, adding Treasured Finds or removal, adding more black, adding guildgates, etc - but it was all worse than your original build. I guess, it's some kind of talent of yours - to make perfect decks :) How much testing does it take you to make something beautiful like this?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:42 pm 
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Deck: DOTP 2015: Going Yard Image Image

//Lands
15 Swamp
11 Forest

//Spells
4 Undying Evil
3 Cultivate
3 Rescue from the Underworld

//Creatures
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Satyr Wayfinder
3 Necromancer's Assistant
2 Agent of the Fates
2 Graveborn Muse
1 Shadowborn Demon
2 Indulgent Tormentor
3 Pelakka Wurm
2 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Griselbrand

I've been a lurker here since the great migration last year but this is my first time posting or sharing a deck. I wanted to make Rescue from the Underworld shine, since I love the theme of the card. So obviously this deck is designed first and foremost to cheat out a surprise fatty on turn 4. While a nifty trick, most of the time you won't actually combo into an easy victory. But it's still very powerful and fun to play because of the ample draw and ability to exploit ETB mechanics with both Rescue and Undying Evil. I'm currently 8-2 with it online.

  • No gates because of the bad interactions with the land fetch others have mentioned in this thread -- and you don't want to be waiting a turn if you need to hard-cast a Pelakka to save the game. They aren't missed.
  • I started out with 2x Bloodghast and 1x Vengevine, but they didn't play that well in this list. The 'vine is a solid, efficient threat, but this deck doesn't really need a midrange tempo play and at a 1x its too random. The 'ghasts weren't that helpful at all due to the inability to block.
  • The Agent of the Fates/Undying Evil combo is fun. The agent also works great with Rescue, of course.
  • I haven't felt the need for more removal. One the creature side, the Agent/Shadowborn/Tormentor have been more than enough and are consistently available from the GY in longer games. Artifacts/Enchantments seem like they'd be a bigger problem, but I didn't run into any decks heavy on enchantments in my playtesting. Because of the 2 recurrable Rune-Scarred Demons, you could probably get away with less than a playset of your preferred removal.
  • I only run 3 Assistants because there is already plenty of self-mill with it and the 4 Wayfinders. Going up to 4 Cultivates also seems reasonable.
  • Graveborn Muse is not necessary or even really synergistic here. More draw never hurts but a couple utility spells or additional big green creatures might work better.
  • I haven't tested Spider Spawning but it seems like it might not be the best fit. This deck is about pushing through big flying/trample damage and not having to worry too much about your opponent's board, so there would likely be a few blockers around by the time it hits. Also, even if you get out five or more of the 1/2 spiders, that seems like more of a stall play when you could instead spend that turn to Rescue Griselband or a Pelakka Wurm or drop a 5-mana Demon.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:20 am 
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I just lost against who I consider the best player on Android. But I realized I should be encouraged rather than discouraged, because the main reason I lost is because I was paired against him. What's the use in feeling let down about a certain deck idea every time you face someone that is good, if you're just going to pick a different deck and 9-0 against scrubs while thinking that is an accomplishment.

"Blockade" (no premiums)
11 Forest
10 Swamp
4 Golgari Guildgate
-
4 x Elvish Visionary
4 x Satyr Wayfinder
4 x Necromancer's Assistant
3 x Reclamation Sage
4 x Gravedigger
4 x Nessian Asp
2 x Indulgent Tormentor
1 x Shadowborn Demon
-
4 x Flesh to Dust
3 x Rescue from the Underworld
2 x Spider Spawning


That is my current list. Running less than the maximum amount of a certain card is something I try to avoid doing, but cutting a Spider Spawning was a stroke of genius. However I am considering cutting yet another Spider Spawning to help make room for 2 Rune-Scarred Demon. The idea being I can just tutor for a Spider Spawning.

For the record, the opponent beat me using a Burning Anger on a Primal Huntbeast. I believe I got 3 activations of Reclamation Sage that game, including one on his Avarice Amulet and one of his Lightning Talons, but he eventually managed to get an Amulet on his Huntbeast. If only I had destroyed it then chances are he would not have drawn the Burning Anger at all.

Destroying the Huntbeast was impossible, all I could do is destroy all the stuff he was attaching to it. (and boy was he)

I already run the max 3 Reclamation Sage, so I'm considering adding 1-2 Naturalize as well. Adding Rune-Scarred would be a good idea since it would basically substitute for additional Reclamation Sage. (tutor for Sage, or tutor for Gravedigger/Rescure to bring a Sage back) If I do that, I probably no longer need the Naturalize. Sounds like a plan.

edit: I could do it like this
-4 Nessian Asp
-1 Spider Spawning
+2 Rune-Scarred Demon
+3 Treasured Find

it's an idea, at least ¯\(°_o)/¯

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* = a game in which the opponent had Battle Mastery. My non-premium decks:
"Meatgrinder" 6W 1L
"Spider Scion" (old) *23W 3L --- "Spider Scion" (new) 9W 2L
"Species Horror" 4W 1L / (new) 4W 1L --- "History Channel" *3W 1L


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:06 am 
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Looks like a pretty decent list. I have a few questions if you'd indulge me;

Why the 4 Nessian Asp? I'm not entirely sure what it is they are doing for you. If your just looking for a CMC5 creature with impressive stats have you considered Arbor Colossus? Same cost, still has reach and has higher power and toughness. While it's true you can only run the two of them you were looking for a way to fit a pair of Rune-Scarred Demon into the deck weren't you?

On the subject of adding additional Naturalize I would have to say - please don't. While I appreciate that in the example you provided above they may have come in handy in almost every other match=up having 4-5 means of enchantment removal will just come off as excessive. At least Reclamation Sage has a body and as such can eventually fuel your Spider Spawning. I guess what I'm saying is there is such a thing as being too cautious ya know?

Finally while I'm not sure what you'd run in it's place have you considered cutting down to 24 lands? In your current set up your curve tops out at CMC5 and even if you start running Rune-Scarred Demon you will still have the opportunity to cheat him out from the graveyard. I could be wrong here so take this last bit of advice with a grain of salt. I'm terrible at working out how much land a deck needs.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:11 pm 
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@Lexxx I agree Lexx, mobius' build here is amazing. I have a lot of fun playing that build.

On another note I really really want to make some sort of ramp/monstrosity build...I'm just not sure with what colors yet, lol. Obviously :g:, lol, but outside of that...I might just make a Gruul Monstrosity build...hmm...I think I have my next project...

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:07 pm 
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Nessian Asp helps against Triplicate Spirits.
Arbor Colossus has triple green in its cost so I'm cautious about pitting him in the deck.
I have considered running 4 Asp 2 Colossus but that eats up even more space in the deck.
Come to think of, against flying tokens Spider Spawning is even better than Asp assuming I can get 2-3 tokens out of it on turn 5 or 6.

Here's what I did:
-1 Flesh to Dust
-1 Spider Spawning
+2 Rune Scarred

But maybe next I should do:
-4 Asp
+2 Spider Spawning
+2 Arbor Colossus

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* = a game in which the opponent had Battle Mastery. My non-premium decks:
"Meatgrinder" 6W 1L
"Spider Scion" (old) *23W 3L --- "Spider Scion" (new) 9W 2L
"Species Horror" 4W 1L / (new) 4W 1L --- "History Channel" *3W 1L


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:19 pm 
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Okay I'll flat out admit I forgot the Colossus has a GGG in it's mana cost. Yeah I can see that being a problem now that I think about it.

I'd definitely recommend getting in at least 2 Spider Spawning though. Even if your just using it to get a quick four guys out of it its usually worth it. Two of them lets you pop one earlier to stay defensive against White and Blues cheap flyers while still having one in hand for when the graveyard is overflowing.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:32 pm 
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I just played against the number 1 ranked player. He was using WG tokens still. Got the drtop on me with a Beastmaster Ascension. He also runs Arrest. Naturalize is looking pretty good right now, but admittedly I misplayed. I thought I was in good shape since I have Reclamation Sage in the deck, but I kept targeting Gravedigger with Gravedigger when I should have been targeting Wayfinder right away to blitz for that Reclamation Sage. I eventially fund a Sage in my yard the turn before I died, if only I had played correctly I would have been able to find it sooner and get it into play.

Afterwards I played a mirror match. This guy cast Spider Spawning making 10 tokens, even though he had only 5 lands out. Wtf. I Rune Scarred for my single copy of Spider Spawning (as it is the only answer) but only made 5 tokens. I was able to hold off but he drew a 2nd Spider Spawning, and eventually started flashing them back. Since I had only one Spawning in my entire deck I could not simply fill my yard and catch up to him in tokens.

I am definitely bumping Spider Spawning up to 3. But now I'm considering adding Suffer the Past as well, as a 1 of. I don't have to but if I dont it would mean that the only way to win mirror is to simply make more spiders than my opponent. (enough to swing for win) Oh, that reminds me. Elder of Laurels is looking pretty good right now. It's a wincon but also helps lay down the line turn 3.

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* = a game in which the opponent had Battle Mastery. My non-premium decks:
"Meatgrinder" 6W 1L
"Spider Scion" (old) *23W 3L --- "Spider Scion" (new) 9W 2L
"Species Horror" 4W 1L / (new) 4W 1L --- "History Channel" *3W 1L


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:55 pm 
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Rockshard, sounds like that guy was running a B/G build like Hakeem's which really focuses on making baby spiders and only making baby spiders. I have been running Mobius' build forever but I think I'm ready to admit that Hakeem's graveyard-focus one is maybe better. It makes SO many tokens early, it's nuts. Later on, it makes game-ending numbers of tokens too. The only issue I've had with it is that stupid white guard that can block unlimited spiders. Damn him! Damn that man!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:14 pm 
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My spider decklist is very efficient, it's true, but it's really one dimensional and plays out very similarly each time (by similarly, I mean crushing the opponent with a massive spider-swarm). I haven't really tested it since I swapped in the heavier emphasis on the Reanimator subtheme, though, so maybe it won't feel so repetitive to play. I have to get back to this list, but I have a few other ideas to build and test so it could be a week or so.

Regarding Elder of Laurels, I run him as a one-of because I run both Rune-Scarred Demons to fetch him if needed; I can also Rescue him should that be necessary. if you can go wider than your opponent, Elder generally wins you the game by buffing an unblocked creature. He's great in my spider-focused deck.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:22 pm 
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If you're playing a Spider Spawning deck like Hakeem's, I really recomend Blasting Station. It lets the deck attack in a complete different angle, and gives it a very explosive finish. The only problem is the tedious process of activating it a million times. You often win when you have to do it, though.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:59 am 
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I just won 3 in a row with this list:

11 Forest
10 Swamp
4 Golgari Guildgates
-
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Necromancer's Assistant
4 Gravedigger
2 Elder of Laurels
3 Reclamation Sage
3 Nemesis of Mortals
2 Indulgent Tormentor
2 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Shadowborn Demon
-
3 Spider Spawning
3 Rescue from the Underworld

Funny how I seem to always have Shadowborn when I need it.
Still, I think I might have nailed it with this build.

Used Elder. This card is obscene. Every deck should be running it. :p
Rescued into a Rune Scarred on turn 5 for the first time.
Turn 3 or 4 Nemesis is not bad. But the opponent just uses a kill spell on it or chumps it. So I wonder if in the future I'm gonna end up replacing the nemesis with some Flesh to Dust or something. I guess I'll just wait and see.

edit: 5-1

edit: totally revamped the list. going 2-0
edit: 4-0
Just won against someone with "The Champion" in their title.

edit: 5-0
edit: 7-0
really close game. Opponent had a Satyr Hoplite with Instill Furor on it, a Stormbreath Dragon, and Inferno Titan. For some reason all my Spider Spawning and Nemesis of Mortals were at the bottom of my deck. Topdecked a Spider Spawning at the last possible minute, making 15 tokens, with Beastmaster Ascension in play. I needed to hold out for just 1 more turn to win, which I did.

edit: 8-0
I just won a game where I mulliganed down to 3 cards.(Swamp, Necromancer's Assistant, Spider Spawning)

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* = a game in which the opponent had Battle Mastery. My non-premium decks:
"Meatgrinder" 6W 1L
"Spider Scion" (old) *23W 3L --- "Spider Scion" (new) 9W 2L
"Species Horror" 4W 1L / (new) 4W 1L --- "History Channel" *3W 1L


Last edited by rockshard on Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:10 am, edited 7 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:04 pm 
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Festival of Rot
x12 Forest
x8 Swamp
x4 Golgari Guildgate

x3 Quest for the Gravelord
x3 Ulcerate
x2 Bloodghast
x4 Elvish Visionary
x3 Jade Mage
x3 Treasured Find
x3 Bloodflow Connoisseur
x3 Corpse Blockade
x3 Devouring Swarm
x2 Blasting Station
x1 Vengevine
x2 Indulgent Tormentor
x2 Doubling Season
x2 Phytotitan

So I got bored of the 'throw everything into grave and then spiders' thing everyone else seemed to be doing and figured I'd try something else out - a self-sacrifice deck! Yeah it probably isn't all that great (in fact I'm pretty sure it isn't) but hey it's something I felt at least vaguely unique so hey why not post it. For those who don't like reading lists proper the main component is Jade Mage feeding a steady stream of tokens to buff, stall and ping until the enemy is dead. Doubling Season is in there to speed things along in the late game and Bloodghast and Phytotitan act as alternate sacrifice options.

Oh and you might as well pretend Devouring Swarm reads Scavenger Drake cause they will be taking the slot as soon as they arrive.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:35 am 
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That looks like a lot of fun Garren. I think it should work out well too.

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