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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:54 pm 
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That's a very reasonable suggestion, and the fact that it extends the reach of all my removal is compelling. Here are the reasons I wouldn't do it, though they may be wrong:

1) Nonbo with Anger of the Gods
2) No access to lifegain in the deck
3) Loss of virtual card advantage

Number three is the biggest reason; by not including many creatures, I blank a lot of my opponent's removal spells by making them dead draws. Numbers one and two are minor in comparison, but still real.

Be a lad and test it for us! :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:57 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
Honestly, if I'm jamming in a six-mana card then I'm not cutting anything at four mana or less; it was strictly a curve-based consideration and the third Flesh to Dust was my worst card at 5+ mana.


A perfect example of K.I.S.S., and the best answer I could have hoped for. Sometimes overanalysis is detrimental to the decision making process.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:21 pm 
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Agreed zero.

That is also how I feel about the cunning here.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:36 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
Honestly, if I'm jamming in a six-mana card then I'm not cutting anything at four mana or less; it was strictly a curve-based consideration and the third Flesh to Dust was my worst card at 5+ mana.

This was my first thought as well when fitting in the Titan. Not a whole lot else makes sense, it pretty much has to be Flesh.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:28 pm 
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So far the Inferno Titan is more than earning it's spot in the list. I'm 7/7 with it since making the change, and the Titan is directly responsible for two of the wins. Not once did I feel that I was missing another Flesh to Dust.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:30 pm 
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I've been playing it all night as well, and just had an amazing win; with seven mana open and only Inspiration in hand my opponent attacked me with a 4/4 flier that would have ended it. One of the two cards I drew was Auger Spree and I coasted from there. The deck is sweet. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:36 pm 
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I did the usual 5-wins-in-a-row to test out the Cunning Sparkmage. Because all three Tribute to Hungers were cut for all three Sparkmages, I also changed one Swamp to a Mountain.

All in all, I liked Sparkmage. He's by no means an all-star, but neither is Tribute to Hunger. For the meta, I really prefer the Sparkmage over Tribute to Hunger. By the time you can get your opponent to sacrifice a fatty instead of a token, you're probably pretty set-up yourself. This deck almost always wins the long game, so you're only hurting yourself by hanging onto Tribute to Hunger looking for a valuable play. This is my number one reason for perfering Sparkmage. In terms of consistency, I always felt at least equally comfortable with a Sparkmage in hand than Tribute to Hunger, if not moreso.

Interesting notes:
While concern that Sparkmage will give your opponent's removal an outlet is a valid one, the Sparkmage actually has a logistical edge. Primarily, the Sparkmage almost only dies to Shock. No one wants to play Bolt or Banisher Priest or Auger Spree on a 0/1, even when this may be a smart play. I find this gives you substantial advantage against the meta white weenies, because you can zots their tokens quite safely until they finally relent and Banish it. It also can't die to Divine Verdict.

Conversely, the Sparkmage doesn't do much against Goblin decks. He's just going to get Shocked. Again, the comparison here is what would Tribute to Hunger do better? You can't target a Foundry Denizen with it. Even the 1 life you gain off it is off-set by the Shock they would play to face later. Additionally, if Goblin's can't answer to the Sparkmage, it's GG.

Yes, Anger of the Gods will fry the Sparkmage, but he still feels valuable when he manages to trade-up for that 4/4 angel as well.

Getting multiple Sparkmages in play is absolutely bonkers. Especially with the meta currently favouring cards like Talren and Krenko's Command, your opponent will not be getting anything on the field.

Sparkmage enjoys turning Inferno Titan's attack from a Bolt to an Auger Spree. Good-bye, Angelic Accord! You can extend literally anything's reach, trading a Jailbreaker for a 5/5, Sphinx Wanding anything above it, or simply wittling your opponent on the end-step. :party:

The nicest thing about Sparkmage over Tribute to Hunger is at least he also has impact when he comes in. Honestly, in the majority of situations, you're at least taking out a token either way. The Sparkmage seems more practical in the meta just for the pressure against white weenies and the reach against anything else (Especially when you've cut a Flesh to Dust and can't nail bigger guys), whereas the Tribute just feels more like filler removal.

If you feel like the Tribute has been giving you a lot of value, keep it. Otherwise, I think Sparky is at least a small optimization.


Last edited by Overmaster on Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:39 pm 
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Glad it's working out, Overmaster. I'll definitely do some testing with them in place of the Tributes. It sounds promising.

Hakeem, I just have to once again say how impressed I am with your list. You're ALMOST right about the deck. This deck isn't just sweet, it's F'IN SWEET!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:04 pm 
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I'd also like to mention that Sparkmage + Auger Spree can be an answer for a Baneslayer Angel.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:08 pm 
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Atharva wrote:

My point wasn't that you wouldn't have the red mana rather just a recognition that he does require it to trade with said popular threats (unlike Flesh to Dust).


Oh ok, I misunderstood you.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:30 am 
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I built a Jund deck and cunning REALLY helped against a goblin deck I had faced. I played the guy TWICE and both times I managed to live past his initial onslaught by killing his creatures with my various removal and cunning. Cunning is pretty nice to have access to in a meta that tends to love 1/1 creatures. And as many others have said he can really help kill off higher creatures that would normally be out of reach of some of your removal.

Using him in my current Jund list makes me think I should consider bringing him to my grixis list as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:47 am 
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I haven't tried Sparkmage yet but I took this build out for a spin and went 4-1 lastnight. The one loss was my 2nd game and not quite understanding how important the Sphinx Wand truly is and tutoring for Kozi instead. Pretty sure if I made the right choice and went with the Wand I would have been 5-0. Titan worked great for me as well.

One game Tribute to Hunger literally won the game for me. I'm playing vs. a Rakdos Steal/Sacrifice deck and of course I'm just sniping off anything he throws down that can sac creatures. I had Kozi in my hand and cast him with 3 mana left over for Tribute. Sure enough he steals Kozi, I cast Tribute and gain 12 much needed life. I had to do the same thing after throwing down a Rune-Scarred Demon. By that time I have the Sphinx-Bone Wand out and he is out of answers, I go from single digit life to over 20 and the Wand ramps up for the win.

I also agree with previous sentiments that pretty much every time I use Tribute it is on a fatty because literally nothing else survives.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:04 am 
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It's a very well constructed deck, Nebula. The times I've lost with it, I can pretty much point to keeping a bad hand instead of mulliganing down to 6 or 5.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:22 pm 
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Like I said, sometimes you DO get amazing, win plays with Tribute. However, I found these to be the unreliable case. It also really depends on the deck you're playing against-- If they only run lots of 3 or 4 drops, you can keep the board pretty clear and use a Tribute to take out maybe a 6/6. However, if they run lots of little guys, or you just can't keep up with the drop, Sparkmage is your buddy.

In most cases, I didn't even really need Tribute to take out a 6/6 or whatever the case. If you can keep up on the removal to force a sac on a big guy, you don't need the lifegain. It's just another case of optinization where I don't see the reliability in Tribute to Hunger.

Bias: I never liked Tribute to Hunger in this deck


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:49 pm 
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Overmaster wrote:
Like I said, sometimes you DO get amazing, win plays with Tribute. However, I found these to be the unreliable case. It also really depends on the deck you're playing against-- If they only run lots of 3 or 4 drops, you can keep the board pretty clear and use a Tribute to take out maybe a 6/6. However, if they run lots of little guys, or you just can't keep up with the drop, Sparkmage is your buddy.

In most cases, I didn't even really need Tribute to take out a 6/6 or whatever the case. If you can keep up on the removal to force a sac on a big guy, you don't need the lifegain. It's just another case of optinization where I don't see the reliability in Tribute to Hunger.

Bias: I never liked Tribute to Hunger in this deck


I agreed 100% with until the last sentence. I initially loved Tribute in this deck. But it just incrementally seemed less and less useful. I only run a single now, and I'm debating dropping it altogether.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:20 pm 
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I think tribute is better if you're running the Cunning Sparkmages, as those will essentially stop your opponent from sacing a measly 1/1 to Tribute.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:36 pm 
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I have yet to understand why so many use Tribute to Hunger in any deck with black in it. To me, even assassinate is better.

But I've been using Cunning Sparkmage for a while now. He's extremely useful and you don't care if they kill it. He's the type that makes a person wish for more archery type creatures,lol. I've also toyed with teaming him up with Pestermite to untap him for another strike.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:47 pm 
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Some of us don't want to spend 5 mana for Flesh to Dust or wait until the turn after a creature attacks to play a sorcery speed Assassinate. The lifegain is mostly just a bonus and helps pad our life total. Tribute also gets around Cloudshift, indestructibility, hexproof, and protection (those last 3 might be rare cases, but they are very real).

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:42 pm 
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I'm 2-0 so far with a very silly deck

UBR "Love Potion" (no premiums)
edit: changing deck's name to "Dark Mastermind"
4 Izzet Guildgate
4 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Traveler's Amulet
13 basics (2 island and some assortment of swamp/mountain)
-
3 Guard Gomazoa
4 Inspiration
1 Time Warp
-
4 Dead Weight
4 Flesh to Dust
2 Rune-Scarred Demon
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4 Shock
3 Cunning Sparkmage
2 Charmbreaker Devils
1 Inferno Titan
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3 Elixir of Immortality
4 Auger Spree

the first game I went infinite
the second game went long and elixir pulled its weight.

elixir has some anti synergy with the combo though. If you time warp and then draw elixir immediately next turn its like.. hmm.. do I pop it now? (I decided to just go ahead and pop it)
its nice to have a deck that uses elixir for a change. It's a refreshing change of pace.(TM)

edit: I'm 4-0
though the third game glitched and I left. I'm counting it as a win though since opponent had nothing but adventuring gear and hot soup and the pandemonium thing. The pandemonium went off but it gave him nothing but more jank ewquipment and elixirs, and the two vampires (the 2/1 and the 2/2) but i killed those instantly with shock and Cunning Sparkmage. I had rune scarred and Charmbreaker and I think Inferno Titan and the pandemonium thing gave me even more stuff and elixirs. (funny, I think we each got 2 elixirs out of it. whee!)

edit: 5-0
edit: 7-0
I went infinite again. And this time Elixir helped me! (Time Warp and Flesh to Dust in gy. Charmbreaker returns Time Warp, I pop Elixir to remove the Flesh to Dust.)

edit: 9-0

edit: 10-0

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Last edited by rockshard on Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:28 pm 
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Overmaster wrote:
Like I said, sometimes you DO get amazing, win plays with Tribute. However, I found these to be the unreliable case. It also really depends on the deck you're playing against-- If they only run lots of 3 or 4 drops, you can keep the board pretty clear and use a Tribute to take out maybe a 6/6. However, if they run lots of little guys, or you just can't keep up with the drop, Sparkmage is your buddy.

In most cases, I didn't even really need Tribute to take out a 6/6 or whatever the case. If you can keep up on the removal to force a sac on a big guy, you don't need the lifegain. It's just another case of optinization where I don't see the reliability in Tribute to Hunger.

Bias: I never liked Tribute to Hunger in this deck


I agreed 100% with until the last sentence. I initially loved Tribute in this deck. But it just incrementally seemed less and less useful. I only run a single now, and I'm debating dropping it altogether.

Personally... I feel like Tribute is a bit of a crutch as additional removal when you mulligan poorly or tap at the wrong times. It's another way to get you out of a jam if you make a big mess-up, but the better I get at keeping my removal efficient for the big guys, the less I need Tribute. To keep my removal efficient, the Cunning Sparkmage is my friend and my bandaid against the white weenie meanies.


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