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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:31 pm 
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She's not actually that much like Venser. He's an artificer. She's a polymath. He's kind of awkward and useless. She's a problem solver who makes friends easily. He wears short skirts. She wears t-shirts. Different, you know?

...

Kinda want some art of Venser in a short skirt now.

I understand that I offended the dignity of the M:EM by suggesting any of the characters were like Venser, but the the skill sets do overlap by quite a lot. Which isn't to say that as a character she is all that similar to Venser, but there are only so many teleporting tinkers running around.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:41 pm 
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I guess I just don't think of her skillsets as being all that similar since as far as what we've seen in the stories she's fiddled as much with enchantments as artifacts arguably, dabbled in healing magic, and generally done a bunch of stuff that isn't really in Venser's wheelhouse. Like, his artificer nature is hugely integral to his character and what he's capable of. His teleportation even was a product, for a while, of an artifact. Aloise has a much more diffuse focus.

It's odd, though, because so far much of her impact in the narrative has been uh... basically being the moirail for the entire freaking Multiverse. She's never gotten into a Planewalker Duel, she's mostly just... facilitated other people in various ways.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:23 pm 
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Yo, what a great word. Thank you for teaching it to me!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:23 pm 
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...Oh god the Quadrants have made it into Urban Dictionary.

I can only tremble at the awful world-shaping power that is Homestuck.

Also hey speaking of which have you heard of Homestuck LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT HOMESTUCK


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:29 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:26 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:45 pm 
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Yeah, there is basically absolutely no way that that response wasn't going to happen immediately.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:05 pm 
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oh good god what have i done

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:21 pm 
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lol i know that reference

Anyway, so.
On the topic of similarity with venser: Like I said, mostly mechanical. Now, Venser only has one card, so he barely has an established one, to be fair. However, excluding his ultimate, both the global unblockable and the temporary exile are abilities that could feasible show up on Alise (just look at all the entries for the latter one.)

For the topic of Mastery, it's more difficult to have internally flavorful cards. It's a lot of work to convey "I have four different types of permanents -> Thefore X happens", as opposed to Oblation's "Something new showed up -> Therefore X happened and caused me to die." Technically, Oblation should have a religious emphasis, given the name, but in a vacuum, the mechanics of Oblation are easier to explain, and have more flexibility. There's a limit to how many different ways to you can say "Four different mages met and created something new!" It could feasibly work out better if each of the studies is more detailed, so you have different aspects to draw upon, but that will sometimes require more knowledge on the user base, as opposed to using the flavor as an exposition tool.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:32 am 
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To be fair, Aloise's skillset is set apart from Venser's, because Venser's current notable skillset is rotting. And possibly having his fluids, tissues, and remaining organs analyzed by Phyrexia. For science.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:02 am 
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sigged.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:56 pm 
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Vote tally:
Echo 5
Storyteller 2
Szat 1
Shazzeh 3
Tevish 1
TP 1
Mown 2
Keeper 1

I would like to give special thanks to Keeper for delaying this by a day. You had to get me browsing the Homestuck wiki didn't you?

From 14 submissions 8 got votes. That's still too many to decide on so I'm going to limit voting to the 4 cards with multiple votes. You may now cast 1 vote for Echo, Storyteller, Shazzeh or Mown. You can also attach a condition or recommendation to your vote, like, "I'll vote for X, but only if that ultimate changes". Of course you can also make recommendations for people you're not voting for.

Echo-robin


Shazzeh


storyteller


Mown

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:05 pm 
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Gotta go again with Storyteller. I think that card best captures Aloise's proposed place in the storyline of Starstill.

Also mwahahaha welcome to the time vortex that is Homestuck.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:08 pm 
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Hmmm. Hmmm...

This is not such an easy decision for me.

I am going to go with Storyteller this time around as well, but I'm going to add my condition as well. Mown (I think?) brought up a valid point - we want PW ults to effect the game state, not create more work. Granted, her -3 makes it easier to get the requisite permanents out, but that's a lot of hoops to jump through on top of popping a -8. Especially since it takes 5 turns to even GET to 8, and then another turn to activate it. Granted, it's winning the game (maybe) but I can't think of many situations where I wouldn't just want to pay 3 and Wargate right off the bat.

The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of Aloise just winning the game for you. She may want to complete the moonrise, but rather than achieving "victory" from that, it makes more sense for facilitate the project.

Here's my suggestion:
[-6]: Search your library for an artifact, enchantment, creature, and land card and put them onto the battlefield. Shuffle your library.

...This, of course, may necessitate changing her -3 up a little bit (Or not! Making friends and stuff is sort of what Aloise does!) But you could drop the "draw a card" on the -1, and change the -3 to "draw a card for each type among permanents you control" or something.

But my only request is the ultimate! Nothing else needs to change and I certainly don't want to take over your design. T_T

I just prefer the idea of Aloise facilitating victory rather than directly causing/reveling in it, ya dig?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:24 pm 
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I had a potential ultimate: Search your library for an artifact, an enchantment, a creature, and a land with total converted mana cost 10? (whatever) or less and put them onto the battlefield.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:28 pm 
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I have no qualms with dropping the ult.
Your (optional) suggestions lead to a totally lead to a different design, however.
Maybe:

-8: Search your library for any number of permanents that don't share a card type and put them onto the battlefield.

Mmm. The overlap with the minus bothers me a bit.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:11 pm 
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Mown.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:53 pm 
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Echo-robin

Shazzeh

storyteller

Mown

My vote goes to Echo-Robin, but I would like its +1 changed into something that incorporates a more persona. This reminds me of Urza's Armor, and when Aloise () reminds me of Urza (), I get upset.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:55 pm 
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Current Tally:

storyteller: 2
Mown: 1
Echo_Robin: 1

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:56 am 
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@ PO

Saying Explore and Brainstorm are about on par makes me doubt your reasoning. However, I concede that the ability is probably too strong as is, since it's the -1 on whats-her-name-merfolk-planeswalker-that-showed-up-in-Theros, who is a 4 cmc UG pw.

You and I apparently have different tastes, because the fact that the -3 is so intertwined with the +1 makes it that much more enticing to me.

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