there's also the possibility that you both want it to fail but are afraid your partner will fail too, so you both play pass. picked at random, you have only have a 50% chance of getting things right and getting the single fail you want.

of course, you don't choose at random, but again I don't intend to discuss those possibilities further until the game is over and it doesn't hurt my strategic position.

There are around 26 hours left to vote on proposal #3.
I've gotten 4 out of 9 votes so far.

There are ways to coordinate, but it has to be done publicly here. So you'd have to find a way to send messages to your teammates, without letting them know beforehand what they are looking for, and without knowing whether they received it or not.

Meanwhile, they could be trying to do teh same thing for you, but with their own version of hiding messages etc.

In short, unless they all pickup on each other's vibes, chances are low that any REAL coordination is happening. Little hints here and there, but nothing to the extent of who to vote and when, who to include/exclude etc.

It can happen, but they have to get used to each other first. For me, it woudl seem that the first mission is a testing ground for them; afterwards they'll know if they have strong communication or not and they can move on from there.

I want to approach Roaring mouse - I saw you said you are uncomfortable in going to a mission with someone from the first mission.
but...assuming there is exactly one spy on mission 1 (and that you are resistance) - you have 3/5*2/4*1/3 = 10% to hit a good team containing only players that weren't on the first team. and 2/3*3/5*2/4=20% to hit a good team containing someone from the first team.
so if mown proposal falls, please make a proposal with one guy from mission 1.
I just wanted to make it clear before you post a suggestion.

So not much has changed since my last reads. Zherog still isn't posting much and Bentz posted more but didn't really address my concerns.


On the two spies on mission 1. It is possible aaarrrgh brought another spy on mission 1 hoping it would fail. However betting on that right now gives the spies an advantage. I would rather err on the side of caution right now and assume there are two spies in group B.




Can you expand on the emphasized? If you are resistance why wouldn't you be on a team?

Bentz since you are on, can you explain what in the team votes makes you comfortable with team squinty, roaring mouse, bentz, razorborne?

From my point of view, looking at the what I consider is the possible 10 combinations of 2 spies, from the not of the first mission.
the 4 possible combinations that didn't create 2 semi-contradictions are (not including first mission).

zherog,alt (1 contradiction)
zherog,Setiny (1 contradiction)
squinty,RM (1 contradiction)
alt,setiny (no contradictions).

the rest of the 6 pairings looks weak for me - perhaps I'm wrong.

so from my point of view, I'm ok in going on the mission, and if squinty took RM with him as the 2nd spy on the mission, the heck with it, not so bad.

There were many votes that would make me feel uncomfortable like mown+aaaarrggh both voting yes - they didn't happen.

what do you mean by contradiction? do you mean voting different ways?

People watching me at work went, so I can explain the pairings from my point of view:

zherog,squinty -> 2.1 zherog took squinty with him to a mission with 2 spies, which I don't think is favorable for the spies, both voted yes for the proposal. on 2.2 zherog voted no for squinty offer with one spy.
zherog,RM -> both voted no for 2.2 offer with one spy. RM refused the 2.1 offer with one spy. come to think about it, RM had to refuse 2.1 proposal, because saying "yes" means that he is saying he is a spy, and it is possible that the 3rd spy is razorborne.
zherog,alt -> zherog took alt with him on a mission, but I'm not sure it is that bad for a first proposal to deceive. and it was declined by alt.
zherog,setiny -> same

squinty,RM->same
squinty,setiny -> squinty voted to go on mission 2.1, and setiny no for 2.2
squinty,alt -> voted differently for every proposal in the game so far.

RM,alt -> both just voted no for the 2 good proposal for the scums so far.
RM,setiny -> almost the same.

alt,setiny -> nothing to say.

while I know the spies can be deceiving, still my best guess is to assume that they tend to vote according to their interest.

So from my point of view, It is quite unlikely that this team has exactly one spy.

I find this to be an odd comment because I think my participation is about normal since Monday, when I returned to work. So, let's take a look. I'm doing this "real" time; I don't know the results before I go and do this counting. So we can all learn together.

This post by Alt is the first one made on Monday. Counting from that post up to Razor asking Bentz what he means by "contradiction" (a damn fine question, I might add), there have been 87 posts made.

Listed in order of post time from that point:

Alt -> 10 posts
Squinty -> 15 posts
Aaarrrgh -> 3 posts
bentz -> 7 posts
Mown -> 11 posts
seTiny -> 10 posts
Neosilk -> 4 posts (included for completeness)
Zherog -> 11 posts
Roaring Mouse -> 3 posts
razorborne -> 13 posts

And... that adds up to 87, so I at least didn't miss anything.

I'll let somebody else say whether or not my posts are contributing to scumhunting or not. That said, since returning to work (where I can be more active, oddly) only 2 posters have more posts than me (squinty and razor), and one (Mown) has the same number. Everybody else - including you - has less.

So let's just say I find it bizarrely odd that you say I'm not posting much when Mouse and aaaaarrrrrrrrgh have 3, or bentz has 7 (and that's raised up by a recent flurry). You can go ahead and say I'm not making quality posts; I'd disagree with you, but that's a subjective thing at least and you'd maybe have something to stand on. But saying I'm not posting much is verifiable false.

*

I'll add that I've cast my vote. Since people got pissy the last time I said what my vote was and why, I'll go ahead and hold that info until Neo posts the summary.

Huh?

Altohugh I do find bentz's post a bit difficult to follow at times, I believe he's stating that because you invited SE and both of you voted in favor of it, it's unlikely that you are both spies.
As in, if x and y is a spy, then z is the noteworthy behaviour.

Quantity wise yes, but I meant content wise. In the mafia games it seems like you post a lot more thoughts and content. I did not say you weren't scum hunting I simply said my read of you hasn't changed.

My last read of you:


I'll post below how I see your since Monday posts.

Disclaimer: I am keeping summaries of each post short and they will not convey all thoughts in Zherogs posts. I am providing links of each so anyone interested can view them in their entirety.

First post Monday lots of good content. This is what I'm use to with you.

Second post Joke post about RPG mechanics

Third post Edit by way of post of second post.

Fourth Post Commentary of first, second, and third post with a thank to squinty

Fifth post Content post, explaining your vote.

Sixth post Small post, reiterates post 5

Seventh Post Stating you were at work

Eighth post State that you are new to resistance, ask a few questions.

Ninth post States razorborne's theory implys spy communications.

Tenth post Explains ninth post

Eleventh post More on subject of ninth post.


It isn't quite what I am use to with your posts, and I don't know how to read it.


Right now I am trying to look at teams, and team votes to see if I can determine anything from that before the vote deadline.

Wow - I must need to put more ranks in Linguistics. Your description makes sense, but even with that I have hard deciphering what he's saying. Maybe it's just that I'm getting too old...



Thanks for clarifying. It's a little funny, because I actually had a "I realize quantity doesn't imply quality" paragraph in my post, but removed it after proofreading because it seemed to be superfluous.

That said, I'm really finding there's not all that much to talk about. At least from my POV. My top suspect from M1 is Aaaaarrrrrrgh. I'm fairly confident on that read, actually, though a lot of it is just stuff I can't put a finger on. The "hunch" stuff that came up last Mafia game. (And, I guess, since my "hunch" said Soup wasn't mafia take my hunches with a big ol' spoonful of salt.) But I still don't know if Mown and/or razor are spies. I'm pretty comfortable that razor isn't, based on his posts. I have no clue about Mown, and I don't know enough about the game theory to internally speculate whether or not M1 likely had 2 spies or not.

And, so, that leaves me stuck. I know I'm a White Hat. I believe Aaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrgh is a Black Hat, and I believe razor is a White Hat. But, of course, I can't prove the latter two.

I find Bentz confusing to follow and Mouse too quiet to get any sort of read on either. And that makes this group really damn hard to evaluate. (Even putting aside issues with having no read on Mown.) But... then I know if this group dies that the two people I'm least comfortable with - bentz and Mouse - get to potentially push an agenda since they're the next ones to build a group. At least if they're the first two group-builders for M3, rejecting the mission becomes viable again.

And that doesn't say anything about reads (or lack of) on you, Alt, or squinty.

So, color me highly confused. I don't know where to look, I don't know what to ask. And so my posts are somewhat more reactionary. I'm finding this game to be even more frustrating to figure out than mafia, honestly. *shrug*

Yes I understand the implications of there being only one spy on the first mission. I have stated previously that this assumption means we need to pick Mission 2 perfectly. If I wanted to simply pick a team with the best odds it would actually be a team with two people from Mission 1 and only 1 addition person. However I highly doubt anyone would vote yes for this team. Why you are appealing to me and not Mown or Squinty in the early proposals, especially since if my proposal is rejected it will be your turn as mission leader.



I should have said "If I just wanted to be on a team". I would like to be a part of a mission however Squinty suggested that I was stalling in order to get my pick of team. If I was a spy I would simply want to be on any team not just one of my choosing.

With so many people it's difficult to follow everyone's arguments. Also I've never played Mafia so I'm not exactly sure how this "scumhunting" works. Mown's proposal is actually the one I was thinking of making as it has no Mission 1 people and has people that are (in my opinion) most likely to be Resistance.

The reason I post so little is that I have very little time right now, and so it's hard to keep up.

It is very hard to get reads right now. There are a lot of arguments flying in various directions, and I don't have any clear theories on my own, which I understand makes me look bad. In addition, what little reads I have gotten have brought me to decisions that look really bad in hindsight. Like approving squinty's proposal, which was just a split decision which I was very doubtful about even as I made it. But now I can't get rid of it.

Point of order: If anyone thinks that both RM and bentz are spies (I currently have no idea) you should reject both this mission and RM's. Because if that is true, we will not have any way to get a no-spy team, it's better to get all of the spies' proposals out of the way. I'm not advocating that option right now, I'm just pointing out that it exists.

Less than 2 hours to go, I've gotten votes from all but 1 player.

Sorry - lost track of time!

Recap

Overall Score:
Resistance = 0
Spies = 1

Mission 1: The Metaboard -- Failure


Mission 2 - MTG


Turn Order


RM - you have ~24 hours to propose a team!

If Aaarrrgh was going to say yes, so far every mission had three votes that were the "odd ones out".
Aaarrrgh, don't ruin this moment for me...