oh, I just meant locationally. put the general community stuff up in "No Goblins Allowed Community" with the Metaboard, not actually in the Metaboard.

The logic behind the organization is that the Metaboard is important for forum related content which is why it is located at the top. The Magic and Roleplaying sections are the main content of the forums while the off topic is the least important and just meant to be a hangout spot. By group the Metaboard and Off Topic sections together, it's either lowering the importance of the Metaboard or increasing the importance of the Off-Topic section.

right, my point was you might want to increase the importance of the Off-Topic section, as it's the section that encourages the Magic folks to talk to the RP folks.

Most of us agreed off topic is trash and should stay at the bottom away from everyone.
This was before a lot of bad people were destroyed, so it might be okay now.

Using a forum function designed to keep track of threads you want to watch so you dont have to navigate to them individually every time...to keep track of threads you want to watch so you don't have to navigate to them individually every time... isn't a work around, its a user using the forum features to their benefit.

I dont see why you'd be confused. Having a nice be FAQ / welcome thread in Magic General that laid out what the site is about and broke down what the various magic boards are for in better detail than the quick blurb on the index, but that also included information on starting / running play by posts games, trades, yadda yadda ... seems fairly useful.

oh, certainly, but why should I use that when literally every other thread I care about is in one of like three forums, and none of them are active enough that something I care about will get buried? no other part of this forum indicates that using the subscription function is necessary, so I don't use it, and I suspect very few people do either. it's just not necessary if everything is where it belongs.

for the record, every single forum except M:EM still has threads from May on the front page. given that, why would I worry about being able to find threads? and if you're advocating using subscriptions instead of just looking at forums, how will I find new threads?

oh, you mean just a redirect to the Play-By-Post forum? I thought you meant one specifically for 3cm. that solves 0 of the problems I've raised, then.

If you dont feel there are enough threads, forums, or activity to warrant using the feature...then don't. *shrug* But don't complain about not being able to keep tabs on a thread, or seeing the new posts icon for a subforum and having to go there to see if its in a certain thread, when there is a default feature specifically made for that type of thing that exists on most every forum out there.

Why not both? Why would it have to be one or the other? I've been using message boards for a while now, and regardless of what type of site or what forum software they're using, its always been an amazing tool to have your subscribed threads notify you when something was posted, be able to at a glance check the status of all your subscribed threads through the UCP, and then when you're not checking those specific threads wander around the boards joining in on the conversation of other threads. Its simple and easy and essentially the same thing one would be doing by going to the various forums they visit and checking the threads they're a part of...then once done simply surfing through those forums to see if any other threads strike their fancy.

No. A resource thread like a Welcome / FAQ that directed the people that wander into Magic General by better detailing all the various Magic Boards as well as some of the others they may be interested in and broke down what sort of content should go where a bit better than the quick forum summaries on the index page. I can understand defending your position, but completely disregarding what I wrote just to dig your heels in a bit more isnt the best way to go about it.

This is incorrect.
Like I said earlier: back when the Wizards boards didn't have groups, 3cm was in the play area of those boards. Only after the Magic PbP-area got killed by groups and after the MPFG group died a year later did 3cm move to Magic General.
Here, the situation here is more like the pre-group thing. So having 3cm re-instated in the PbP-area makes most sense to me.

You keep making the point from your Magic-side PoV, but why do you keep ignoring the players that go the opposite direction that already responded in this thread?
There are a bunch of players who never visit Magic General and look for 3cm on the PbP-area. The exact same argument can be made for those players and point to keeping 3cm where it is right now.

Could people please read my posts regarding the intention of the forum section? The descriptions are off imo, but the intention is an area similiar to MPFG combined with RP due to the fact that our number of participants is not yet big and/or active enough to warrant a split between the two.
But the MtG-side of things is mostly inactive due to lack of interest apparently.

It really isn't if history repeats itself. I hosted the thing 4 times, and it is the same thing every time.
Participation grows for 1-2 months and recedes to the same +-10 people regardless of where it's located.

Like I said earlier I don't really mind it either way, but Magic related forum games are still forum games.
I think it's kind of stupid to make the exception for the Magic section to not put their stuff in PbP. This goes for the Card Chain Game as well imo (didn't even know that was there). That's obviously a posting game and has a history similar to 3cm. It started in MPFG and got moved to MG when MPFG died. However, in this forum we do have an MPFG-like area and so they should go back there.

basically, why both? what do I gain from using it? because it takes a non-zero amount of effort, so if it's for zero reward then I'm just wasting time. and you could easily set it up so that there is zero need to use it by moving one thread to one forum that still has posts from over a week ago on the front page anyway so it's not like it'd be interrupting anything.

basically, all your arguments seem to be that it's not a big deal to get around. and while that may be true, I haven't seen anything close to convincing as to why I should have to work around it in the first place. why is there a need to have 3cm in a forum surrounded by threads for completely different interests when there's a forum for related stuff right there.

ok, then. that doesn't solve anything I've mentioned either, except for vaguely demonstrating that in theory there may be magic games in the PbP area. (which, setting aside this one, there are not.) it doesn't let current players know when new rounds update. it doesn't remind people that the game exists when they've stopped for a bit. it doesn't inform people who've been here for a bit and haven't checked it out, but might be interested. it just informs people new to the forum, and let's be honest, it only informs the ones who read intro threads, which isn't a lot.

I think Razor's argument was more of if you're coming to this forum for the first time and you're expecting Three Card Magic, a common game on Magic forums, you would expect to see it in a Magic related section rather than some posting game section. It might be the logical next stop after looking in Magic sections but I think the reasoning behind the argument is that Magic stuff goes in the Magic section. When you visit a new forum for the first time, if everything is laid out easily you're more likely to stay. On forums with a lot of clutter or organizational issues people are less likely to stay because the user experience isn't great from the get go.

While subscriptions are a way of being reminded of threads, not everybody likes the features and don't enjoy using them. When there is a forum with a lot of sections it's also easy to forget where things are and subscribing to everything could cause clutter as well (a reason to why I don't use subscription functions). I think it's reasonable to try to accommodate to all types of forum experiences because we don't all use the forums the same way. I think trying to modify things within reason to help optimize a user's experience is something we can strive for.

but it's not MPFG. no one's playing any sort of magic games there. I don't really care what your intent for the forum is, I'm talking about what it is

people who have no interest in Magic but want to play a game that requires an encyclopedic knowledge of obscure magic cards to master? sure, they may exist. maybe they played for a while but don't care about contemporary magic and thus don't care about the magic forums. but those people may post anywhere. why not put it in Creativity Corner so the people who mostly post there can see it? the people most likely to be interested in a Magic game are active Magic players, so it should be where they are, and that's the Magic forums.

and, as I say before, the YMtC-related forum games are still forum games. but they go in YMtC because that makes way more sense.

no, we don't. we have an area you think should be MPFG-like. an area that has no Magic Puzzles, no Magic Fun, and only one Magic Game. (not that 3cm isn't fun, I've just always thought of the "fun" part of the title as referring to the non-game, non-puzzle posting games part, not the generic concept of enjoyment.)

And again I ask:
Whose fault is it that there are not more MPFG-like topics in the area designed to take that place?

And there has already been responded to YmtC and stuff. Not going over that again.

Magic General is for discussion of Magic the Gathering. Any topic not specifically designated in the other forums of this section goes there.

Games are designated for the games area. It's not rocket science.
The only thing that should really be changed is the description of the PbP-area imo.

From everything written so far, one thing jumps out at me:

The game belongs in both areas. It is a structured Play by Post game, and it is a Magic General topic, but the thread should only exist in one space. But since it could belong to either area and be just fine, why move it? I mean, I enjoy the Card Chain Game, and it's one of the only things I check in on for Magic General, but I've never asked for it to be moved to the Forum Posting Games section. It could belong to either one, but I'm perfectly fine leaving it where it is and checking in on it. There is overlap in genres for the forum, which is to be expected, and posters are going to feel that threads need to be in specific spots, but it doesn't make where it is wrong, it just means you'd rather it be elsewhere. I support leaving it where it is, but I'd also be fine if you or anyone else wanted to run an opposing one in Magic General.

And as far as other games for Magic in the Play by Post area, I ran an EDH game for JaC and rstnme, JaC ran one for me and altimis, and NeoSilk ran a DotP game for True_Believer and felbastia. Now, yes, those games are long gone, but they were done and people knew they were out there. Other sign up threads were done, but there wasn't any interest from the community to play more, but to say it wasn't done is incorrect.

~SE++

who cares whose fault it is? why does responsibility matter? I don't really care why it is your dream of a reborn MPFG isn't coming to fruition, but it's not, and decisions should be made based on that reality. PbP is roleplaying and mafia. I don't care what description you write for it, or what you want it to be, that's what it is.

you have? where? I'm serious, I don't see any response from you on the subject.

or did you mean Bounty Hunter's response? (are you BH? I honestly don't know, although I think you're JaC.) in that case, the fact that it's in the description doesn't change much of anything because a) you can change the General description, and b) your argument was that it didn't make sense to give Magic a special exception, but you've already given a specific subset of Magic a special exception, because dumping the YMtC posting games in with the rest of the posting games would separate them from the people who are most likely interested in playing them. which is exactly what I'm saying you're doing with 3cm.

you should move it because the average Magic General poster is more likely to be interested than the average PbP poster. I've said that a number of times.

I never said they weren't done, I said they aren't being done. I don't really care what it used to be, except as far as that indicates what it is.

Don't respond to my sarcasm

Sorry

Anyway, we've all said our thing. I asked some others to chime in with their thoughts and we'll be back later with a definite response.

I do not understand your argument any longer. The more you respond the less sense I can make out of it.

Especially in regards to the subscription feature, it seems you'd rather take more time and effort browsing forums that you obviously don't want to be a part of than simply mark the one thread you may be interested in (we have both bookmarks and subscriptions here) so that you don't have to spend as much time or energy doing the former. I have a couple of threads bookmarked because I want to keep tabs on them without having to do as you are complaining about needing to do with 3CM et al. There are several threads that interest me that are in forums I do not frequent as often as others, and also several threads that are in forums that move faster than I am used to. I bookmarked a few of them so that I don't have to worry about tons of emails but can still tell when said threads have unread posts in them.

I just keep seeing the idea of moving all these games (3CM, Card Chain Game, the YMTC game somebody mentioned), as being insular for the sake of being insular. I am very glad that I have been branching out beyond the AF&S and M:EM boards since we left our old frozen island.* It has, among other things, given me dozens of new webcomics to read, and allowed me to meet wonderful new people like BH and squinty.

*The migration from the mothership is chronicled in RavenoftheBlack's story Kiss of the Shorecerers which I am still referencing nearly a year later.

basically, I'd rather look in the places I'm interested in looking than look in the places I'm interested in looking and my subscription page. I don't understand what's weird about that.

There's nothing weird about it.

The problem is you want to move threads to places they currently don't belong in so that you don't have to be bothered to look at your subscription page. While I would dearly love most of the forum posting games I like to be moved to the DOTP subforum, I don't ask for this.