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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 4:21 pm 
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Clockwise from left: Astral by James "If-not-for-Gravity" Henderson, Mesmeric by Jennie "sweetcivic" Yuen, Flameheart by Jessica "ArtLair" Feinberg, Shepherd by Anthony "Ubermonster" Francisco, and Foundry by Sarah "sarahfinnigan" Finnigan
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Mechanics Development Thread | Card Showcase Thread


So, I've got a set/block in the works, and right now it's open for development by anyone! I started with a post over at MTGSalvation, but two communities are better than one, right? :)

This is the story thread. Mechanics should be developed over in the Mentalis Mechanics development thread. This thread will be for worldbuilding of Mentalis itself, as well as developing the stories behind the different factions, and the history of the plane. We will eventually be discussing story down to the level of individual characters.

So here's the story/flavor we have so far. EVERYTHING is subject to change as we all discuss, improve, and develop :)

The plane is Mentalis, and it is filled with creatures who have all focused their mana on a particular area of specifically psychic ability. Each color represents a different faction which has honed a different psychic skill. They are listed below.

Current Faction Descriptions
Spoiler


Mentalis has some interesting creature type origin stories...

Whence Come the Myriad Creatures?
Spoiler


Now, first I'll open up the discussion by asking, "What are your thoughts of the story so far? What should be changed, why, and how?"

And then I'll say, "We need to fill the gaps!" Here are a few pieces of information we're missing:

1. Joe the Demon Master has a silly name. What is his real name and title?

2. We know a little about the history between the Foundry and the Astral Tribunal, but what about the other factions? What were they doing back when this war between night and day was happening? Why do the Mesmerics want to take control from the Tribunal?

3. So there's a turf war between the Foundry and the Flamehearts. What details can we find about this? Who was involved, how is it carried out, and what effects does it have on both factions (or others)?

4. A block needs a conflict. In this case, it seems that conflict if a power struggle that leads to a weakening light source on Mentalis. What is this struggle? Is it caused by the Mesmerists, the Foundry, or someone else? What's changed that this is happening suddenly after so long in relative stability?

5. Anything else?


Last edited by IceMetalPunk on Sat May 31, 2014 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 5:29 pm 
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So, over in the Mechanics thread, storyteller pointed out an important plot hole. If fire emits light, then what makes the Astrals more powerful than the Flamehearts? My spontaneous workaround was "the Flamehearts only control heat, but their fire wouldn't emit light without the Astrals to provide it"...but yeah, that's clearly a forced workaround >_< .

So how do we explain this issue? My roommate suggested something on the basis of "fire destroys things, so it's not as pure as just light itself". How do we turn that into an answer here? Would it be okay if it were just, "Even the Flamehearts can't contain fire for long. It always burns whatever holds it, so it can't be channeled throughout the plane without destroying everything"? Or is that also too forced?

Consider this number 6 above xD


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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 2:10 am 
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Or something like that.
This is how I envisioned your plane while I read your setting.
Seems too streamlined for each color ._.

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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 1:54 pm 
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O_o Wow, no wonder you're called "storyteller" XD

So, I'm pretty much in love with what you've written. I only have one and a half issues with it (and considering how much you've written, that's like.... 1% XD ). The half-issue is we need to flesh out the "trick" that the Astral used to seal Hothaxis (the Master Demon... I'm suggesting a real name for him instead of Joe XD). My suggestion is this:

In the midst of the largest battle in the Dark War, the Astrals created their first Luminals to act as warriors. Hothaxis had never seen such a thing and wasn't sure what to make of them, but he reacted as he always did when faced with an enemy: he attacked. While the battle between the Hothaxis and the Luminals raged on, distracting the demon and his Foundry, the Astrals prepared a magical Seal. With enough power, this Seal would devour and contain just about anything in its center. While some Luminals distracted Hothaxis with their everlong fighting, others attached the Seal to the wings of Hothaxis himself. When all was set, the Luminals simultaneously burst forth their light, all at once, a radiant blast that blinded everyone for miles around. This light activated the Seal, capturing Hothaxis and imprisoning him indefinitely.

*EDITED SECOND HALF*

So now we come to the bigger problem. The red faction in your story. While making them all (or mostly) unintelligent solves the problem of why their fire's light hasn't usurped the Astrals yet, it creates a new problem. Now we have a faction in a world filled with psychic abilities...but there are virtually no sentient pyrokinetics. They're using the powers of their mind, but don't have a powerful mind to use. It seems...counterintuitive. From a more mechanical design perspective, it also means that red cards based around sentient creature types would be nonexistent--no pyromancers or intelligent elementals to speak of. Just the idea of an entire color/faction of nonsentient beings in a psychic-themed plane...doesn't sit right with me. Also, if they're used to their fire creating light, then why have they stayed mostly in the dark continents and avoided the sun's light?

It's interesting to me that red seems to be the hardest faction to design around in this set...then again, psychic abilities are based around mental control, while red is generally chaotic, so maybe that's part of why XD .

What if the Flamehearts (or whatever their name ends up being as their backstory develops) are about 40% sentient, 60% beastial? The sentient Flamehearts are part of society (only barely) and the beasts are either their pets or their hunted prey. The reason their pyrokinesis isn't usurping the Astrals is simply a mix of apathy and irascibility: basically, the light source needs to be steady and constant, but the Flamehearts are too chaotic to ever want to supply a steady light to anyone, even themselves. Also, the order and calm necessary to do so only makes them feel controlled and therefore angry at their controllers. So they aren't interested in trying to supply any kind of steady anything, let alone steady light for the entire plane, and anyone trying to make them do so...gets burned.

Does that work? It allows for all the aspects of pyrokinesis the faction embodies, while explaining why they haven't taken over from the Astrals, and also allows for some sentience to fit the psychic theme and allow them to live within society--at least, they live there, even if no one likes them living there xD .

I do like your Dark Continent idea, though... what if we make that the Foundry's headquarters, for lack of a better word? They use the city's underground sewers as a path between the city and the Dark Continent, gathering victims and bringing them to their homeland for the sacrificial rituals. The purpose of trying to eliminate the light was to expand their territory to engulf the entire plane, and now there's only the small area of city/forest that remains out of their control. Only Hothaxis can brig total darkness to Mentalis, so they continue their rituals in an attempt to get him back. A small number of Foundry members stay in the city, cloaked and covered to keep out the light, learning all they can about its inhabitants. This allows them to choose ideal victims without being bothered about it (usually Flamehearts), and it also constantly feeds them new information about the Astrals, which in turn gets them closer to learning how to break the Seal and set Hothaxis free. Whenever a scouting party comes into the city to gather new sacrifices, the Foundry that reside there pass on their information to take back to the Dark Continent.

Does that work? (I keep asking this because I don't think I know what works :P )


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:29 am 
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Lol. I only call myself storyteller cuz it was the first username (for nasakids) I ever chose for myself.
I was in 4th grade at the time, and only recently started learning English.

Vs "Joe" seems fine.

I imagine the Dark Continent to be a place of little heat, and thus only the beasts can survive adequately. It might actually be quite the scenery to look out into the dark continent and see a field of small fires dotting the landscape like the stars dots the sky. On another note, I didn't mean to imply that the beasts/beast-men were not at all sentient. The beast-men do have some level of intelligence, but often choose to follow their emotions over their mind. Thus, they use pyrokinesis only as a tool of survival and battle rather than being able to realize the importance of fire as a source of light in the plane. I also imagine that the beast-men will learn to become more intelligent under the tutelage of the Shepherds.

Not too sure about the Foundry HQing in the Dark Continent. The premise was that no one knew what was out there. Perhaps there come be some revelation to come out of the bonding between the beast-men and Shepherds about what's on the other side of darkness. In the meantime, I imagined Foundry to be HQ'd in the sewers, and only ventured out onto the Dark Continent to capture fire beasts to use as sacrifice/sell to the Mesmerics, seeing as, once again, I imagined the Dark Continent to be a place unsuitable for habitation, except to the fire beast/beast-men. Demons and luminols would presumably have no trouble out there, though.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:03 pm 
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It's "Luminal", not "Luminol"... luminol is a chemical detectives use to find traces of blood and body fluids xD .

Okay, as long as there are some intelligent Flamehearts, it works. Except now there's another problem introduced >_< . The Foundry chooses the Flamehearts as an ideal sacrificial victim because no one cares about them enough to investigate. But if the Flamehearts are being taught and/or nurtured by the Shepherds...then they would care and investigate, wouldn't they?

Unless... ooh! Interesting thought! And a way we could combine our two concepts of the Flamehearts! So in the Dark Continent there are wild Flamehearts (and I guess some semi-wild caveman-type creatures). But some are being nurtured by the Shepherds, learning, gaining intelligence. And when they reach a highly sentient level, they venture into the city. Although they're intelligent enough now to join society, they are still slaves to their emotional, aggressive instincts. The ones that have passed into society become like the Flamehearts I described before, while the ones that remain wild and in the Dark Continent are like the ones you've described. The Shepherds are sort of the teachers, acting as guides to help them pass on. They're trying to instill a respect for nature into the Flamehearts, but have so far failed to do so, in the process merely enriching their minds but not their souls.

I think that's a fair compromise. The only thing is that I now have to rework some of the cards I've created (and posted). Specifically, I have a green/black card that's a Zombie Beast, with the flavor of originating from the Gap between the Shepherds' forests and the Foundry's Dark Continent. If the Dark Continent now belongs to wild Flamehearts instead...that doesn't work anymore. In fact, if the Foundry lives in the sewers of the city, and the Shepherds live in the forests outside the city...when would they ever meet? How can I justify green/black cards at all? >_<


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:26 pm 
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I was under the impression that you wanted conflict.

I set it up just so it makes a three-sided conflict of :g::r: vs :w: vs :b: with :u: seeking profit from the sidelines.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:40 pm 
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Oh, no, that definitely is fine! But even in conflict, I feel like there has to be some way to justify every color combination, at least in the rare instance, so that the flavor doesn't limit the card design too much.

As it is now, anyone in the city can interact with each other, and the Flamehearts and Shepherds interact...so that's every combination except green with WUB. Three 2-color combinations that would be forced to be nonexistent in at least the first set in the block (after that, it can be justified as the Shepherds move into the city in retaliation for the waning light).

So really, I guess the question isn't specifically "how can G/B be justified?", but rather, "How can G/B, G/U, and G/W be justified?"


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:33 pm 
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Why do you need to justify those color combinations? Are you planning on creating a whole bunch of gold cards? If not, it doesn't matter much. One or two gold cards can be exceptions rather than rules. And if you are... maybe you should be rethinking the way you've divided colors up.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:42 pm 
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Not "a whole bunch", but even if there's only two or three of each, how can those be justified? Even as an exception, they need to make sense. (At least...I really would be uncomfortable putting something in that doesn't make sense...that's the author in me, I guess).


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:10 am 
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I just think you're maybe overthinking things a little bit. One or two cards are, inherently, exceptions rather than rules, and they don't have to fit into the specific social system you've constructed.

Like, the major human character in the M:EM plane Jakkard is r/b despite humans being predominantly w/u/b. She's an exception, though, not a rule--a legendary character. There's no sense in rewriting the style guide to explicitly account for her exceptional case, when it's obvious that she's a deviation from the norm. Similarly, Tibalt is a devil planeswalker. This is EXPLICITLY FORBIDDEN by the rules of the spark. To make him possible, he was given a more complex backstory. Creative did NOT in contrast rewrite the rules of the spark in order to make Tibalt possible.

What you've got here is solid. Why screw it up in order to account for a few corner cases that can be properly flavored when the time comes?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:33 pm 
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If you really need the connection, I imagine some Shepherds could have joined the Foundry, despite the arts' conflicting ideals.
In my imagined setting, the Foundry grew in numbers - those numbers had to come from somewhere, and they sure didn't come from the Astrals or fire beasts.
(Actually, could there be the rare good-hearted Astral who grew tired of his kind's constant oppression that join the Foundry?)

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