Clockwise from left: Astral by James "If-not-for-Gravity" Henderson, Mesmeric by Jennie "sweetcivic" Yuen, Flameheart by Jessica "ArtLair" Feinberg, Shepherd by Anthony "Ubermonster" Francisco, and Foundry by Sarah "sarahfinnigan" Finnigan
As you can see from the Mentalis Flavor Development topic, I've got a set/block in the works, and right now it's open for development by anyone! I started with a post over at MTGSalvation, but two communities are better than one, right?
This is the mechanics thread. I'll be posting updates to the flavor and story as it develops, to help inform the mechanics, but this thread is dedicated solely to coming up with creative and workable mechanics for the different factions within Mentalis.
So here's the story/flavor we have so far.
The plane is Mentalis, and it is filled with creatures who have all focused their mana on a particular area of specifically psychic ability. Each color represents a different faction which has honed a different psychic skill. They are listed below.
Faction Descriptions
Spoiler
The Astral Tribunal: The Astrals are a small group who, along with their followers in the Tribunal, have focused their abilities on photokinesis--that is, light manipulation. Long ago, Mentalis's sun burned out, and the plane was shrouded in darkness. Only the Astrals had the power to channel their psychic energy--with the help of the Astral Spire--to bring light to Mentalis once more. Because they are, in essence, the life-givers of the entire plane, they have the power to keep order.
The Mesmerics: The Mesmerics are a group of mages who have focused their abilities on mental manipulation. That is, they excel at creating illusions and hallucinations, and often use deceptive tactics to meet their ends. They are highly skilled at manipulating others through these illusions, and they do so often enough to stay behind the scenes in most of their work, even though they're quite infamous. They are playing a long game to take control of Mentalis from the Astrals--the have yet to figure out how to keep the Astral Spire running without the Astrals, and the Astrals have built a resistance against the Mesmerics' manipulations. They keep looking for new ways in, though, and they will persist until they are in control.
The Foundry of Damnation: Often just called the Foundry, this cult is filled with mediums--that is, creatures who commune with the dead and their spirits. In the Days of Light, the Foundry were once ruled by a great and powerful demonic master (who...we have yet to name, and have simply been calling Joe ). Some say the Foundry were responsible for the plane's darkness, an attempt to take control in the night. When the Astrals restored light to Mentalis, they banished Joe, and now the Foundry continually sacrifices victims left and right, guiding their souls to try and return Joe back to Mentalis and take their rightful place as rulers of the eternal night. (Potentially, the only souls powerful enough to bring Joe back are the souls of all the highest Astrals...which is a problem since the Foundry has so far been weaker than the Astrals). They have a turf war going on with the Soulburners (see below).
The Soulburners: (Name also subject to change--potentially soon to be the Flamehearts) The Soulburners are the brutes, rapists, thugs, and generally untouchable creatures in Mentalis. They have channeled their psychic abilities toward pyrokinesis, or fire manipulation. Like the element they control, their tempers are extremely hot. They are quick to lash out at and seek revenge for the tiniest of offenses--and almost everything offends them. Other citizens generally try to avoid them, but they're also often hired as bodyguards, assassins, and other jobs requiring a dearth of morality and a surplus of rage. The Foundry often consider the Soulburners ideal victims for their sacrifices, as no one cares enough to investigate a Soulburner's death. Meanwhile, Soulburners are constantly seeking revenge on the Foundry for these murders, leading to an ongoing turf war between the two factions.
The Silent Shepherds: The Silent Shepherds (or simply the Shepherds) live outside the boundaries of society. They prefer to live in harmony with nature, embracing life over ambition. They have developed their psychic abilities into an almost symbiotic relationship with nature and with each other, a psychic thread tying all life together. They have a disliking for each other faction for various reasons: they hate the Foundry because of their blatant disregard for life; they hate the Astral Tribunal because of their unnatural governmental restrictions; they hate the Mesmerics because of their conformance to minds rather than to nature; and they hate the Soulburners because of their chaotic and inharmonious nature. Although they're known for their nonviolence, preferring to simply live outside society rather than interrupt it, power struggles within the city have disrupted the Astrals' light source. This has caused the deaths of many plants, and through the food chain, ultimately many other forms of life as well. The Shepherds will be silent no more--they have decided to enter the city and destroy the creatures responsible for destroying the light. What they find is that every other faction plays a role in the disruption...and so it becomes them against all others, a true free-for-all.
So, given those descriptions, and the description of the plane...time to make some mechanical magic!
I'll list the mechanics I had for each, though most have been shot down either for being OP, UP, boring, or unflavorful... but maybe they're good starting points for further improvement .
Current Mechanic Concepts, or What Not To Do (So Say Other Critics)
Spoiler
Seance (When this enters the battlefield, you may return target creature card with converted mana cost less than it from your graveyard to the battlefield. If you do, sacrifice this at the beginning of the next end step.) -- Has been considered OP, and described as "always a clone of your biggest baddie in your graveyard."
Sacrificial (Sacrifice this permanent: cast a creature card from your graveyard as though it had flash.) -- Apparently, same problem as Seance, except worse because flash.
Portent N (Reveal the top N cards of target player’s library. Then you may have that player shuffle his or her library.) -- Shot down for inducing too much shuffling.
Wisp [COST] ([COST]: Return this permanent to its owner’s hand.) -- Shot down for being both boring and OP. Described as creating "an unkillable blocker and an uncounterable strategy."
Vengefire (Whenever a source deals noncombat damage to you or a permanent you control, this deals 1 damage to that source’s controller.) -- Shot down because it "feels more white than red, and is too narrow, as it would only really affect red decks." -- A modified version that removed the noncombat requirement was deemed too powerful...and still too white.
Blind [COST] ([COST]: Tap target creature and remove it from combat. Activate this ability only during combat before blockers are declared.) -- Considered boring as it "encourages people to hold back and block, and is deterministic as you'd always remove their biggest threat."
Harmonic [MANA] (Whenever this creature is dealt combat damage, add [MANA] to your mana pool. This mana doesn’t empty from your mana pool until end of turn.) -- Considered hard to build around. -- Originally shot down because the "doesn't empty" clause wasn't there (so it didn't work), and after added, no comments were made, so I don't even know what the judgment on this is anymore.
scout N (To scout N, reveal the top N cards of your library. You may put up to one basic land card revealed this way into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.) -- Considered "good enough for a one-shot, but shouldn't be common enough to keyword."
Harmonize — [COST]: Another target creature gets/gains [SOMETHING] until end of turn. Activate this ability targeting the same creature only once each turn. -- Based off the Rootwalla ability, but changed to affect other creatures to emphasize the harmonic connection the Shepherds have with each other and with nature. -- Was told it would "lead to very complex board states" because of remembering which creatures have harmonized with which others...
So...anyone up for some mono-colored, psychic-themed mechanical development?
Last edited by IceMetalPunk on Sat May 31, 2014 9:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Recently, the idea has come about for a new creature type to be included, currently called the Luminals. These are being made partly or entirely of pure light, crafted by the Astrals to battle for them. The Luminals all have the ability to "explode" and release all their light at once, blinding their enemies, at the cost of fading out of existence when the light has been expended. They also all have vigilance because light doesn't get tired.
So to that end, mechanically, all Luminal creatures would have vigilance and an ability of the form "[COST]: This creature can't be blocked until end of turn [possible other buffs]. Exile it at end of turn." It's not a keyword, so it doesn't have a name, but I'm just calling it the Luminal ability or the Burst ability.
Some examples:
Luminal Generation Sorcery (C) Put three 1/1 white Luminal creature tokens onto the battlefield. They have vigilance and “ : This creature can’t be blocked until end of turn. Exile it at end of turn.” When one Luminal burns out, another takes its place.
Luminal Mender Creature — Luminal (U) Vigilance Whenever Luminal Mender deals combat damage to a player, you gain that much life. : Luminal Mender gets +2/+2 and can’t be blocked until end of turn. Exile it at end of turn. 2/2
Timid Luminal Creature — Luminal (U) Vigilance : Timid Luminal gets +X/+X and can’t be blocked until end of turn. Exile it at end of turn. Some Luminals refuse to concede to their instilled aggression until they deem it necessary. 1/3
We're also considering some origin stories of different creature types for the other factions, one or two for each. Maybe it will inspire some mechanical designs? I've been trying to figure out how the Djinns might work, if anyone has ideas?
Whence Come the Myriad Creatures?
Spoiler
Fire elementals all used to be Flamehearts, but as their control of fire grew, so did their temper, until the very flames they controlled engulfed them, and all that was left was a blaze-filled shell in the shape of their old bodies.
Spirits normally pass on through the Darkveil into the afterlife, but because of the Foundry's messing with them to feed them to Joe (we need a better name for him), the Darkveil is unstable. Sometimes the Darkveil will spit out the souls of dead who have already passed over, leading to Spirits; other times, the dead can't even cross it, leading to Ghouls/Zombies.
Earth elementals are similar to golems in that they're created from the earth itself by the Shepherds, and imbued with intelligence as part of the Shepherds' usual harmonic psychic link.
Obviously, Illusions come from the Mesmerics. Also, the Djinn are not natural species on Mentalis. Djinn are Mesmerics who have become so powerful, honed their illusory skills so much, that they seem to bend reality to their will. Of course, it's all still just an illusion, so even though the Djinn provide wish-granting, it's almost always temporary. Usually, they grant the wish until you complete a favor for them, and then they take it away when you're done.
- A variant of Soulshift that triggers on ETB instead, maybe?
- This screams Fateseal to me.
- could see affinity to creatures/land here. Maybe Soulbond, or a variant thereof.
- Personally feel like somehow these guys should have a little more depth. After all, they can produce something that supposedly only the Astrals are supposed to have control over.
On luminals: Three 1/1 vigilants for is most probably OP. Unblockable feels a bit weird in white. I would expect controlling blocker choices or tapping instead.
I originally had the blue faction (before they even had a name) focused on clairvoyance, and so scry/fateseal and similar crossed my mind. But I just don't know how that fits the idea of creating illusions and hallucinations. Care to explain how that fits the flavor a bit more?
Hmm...a Soulbond variant for the Shepherds would be perfect. So now here's the question: do we just go right for actual Soulbond, or is there a way to make a version that's more "everyone is connected, not just us two" without it getting OP or boring?
And yeah, the Flamehearts are the least developed faction, story-wise. If you want to help develop them, the Story Development thread is now up (I'll link it in the first post as soon as I've posted this). But as a quick mention, I was under the impression they don't create light. They can create the heat to ignite a flame, but the flames don't produce their own light. They produce heat and brighten the light around them, but without the Astrals' light source in the first place, they'd be dark (but still hot) flames. Magic!
My original mechanic for the Astrals did, in fact, tap things down. But then I was told that would be too boring and powerful (because you'd just keep their biggest baddie tapped down), so I changed tactics. Maybe you can think of a good way to incorporate tapping down as a keyword in a better way?
My original Foundry mechanic was also recursion, which I was told was OP as well...they said it would "just keep bringing the biggest thing smaller than the creature back". However...I'm wondering if an actual Soulshift mechanic (only without the Spirit type restriction) would be okay, because it triggers on death, so you can't just "play creature, recurse best dead thing" unless you have some way of killing it? What do you think?
And also, if I were to keep the cost for the Luminal Generation, would it be more fair for two tokens, or just one?
- wasn't thinking about illusions or hallucinations. Was more going down the mind control lane for that one. Meh.
- Banding says hi?
- I don't buy that story, but if that's how it is, I guess that's how it is.
- I think a soulshift variant would be fine. It could even be etb, maybe. [mechanic name][cmc] (When this card etb, exile target creature with cmc less than [cmc] in your graveyard. You may cast that card while ~ is on the field) etc.
- 2 tokens is probably ok. No mechanic comes to mind off top of my head.
Ooh, I like your version of the soulshift mechanic! It's also a do-or-die situation, because if you don't cast it and your creature dies, you lose it forever. Which is very bad in black especially.
A name for that... Soulrip? Ghostrip? Or, if we're sticking with the Darkveil story, Veilrip? I don't know why, but I think "rip" fits here, as it's ripping them from the Darkveil and back into the world...
As for banding...no. Just...no. My friend plays an all-banding EDH deck, and let me tell you, there is a VERY good reason that banding is an 11/10 on MaRo's "Never coming back" storm scale. But maybe something like it, with less complicated game warping. Some fusion of Soulbond that also somehow affects other things? Somehow... ideas?
As for the Flamehearts, like I said, their story is the least developed, and that was just what I came up with. To be honest, until you mentioned it, I never really noticed that they'd be making light with their fire... so again, head over to the Story Development topic and help us fix this loophole, please .
*EDIT* Oh! And also! You'll notice in the flavor of the creature origins that the Djinn of Mentalis are really super-powerful Mesmerics who use their illusion abilities to grant wishes, which disappear when you return the favor by doing what they want.
My idea for them mechanically was something like this:
"When Some Djinn enters the battlefield, you may exile the top three cards of your library face up. Whenever [TRIGGER], you may put a card exiled with Some Djinn into your hand."
So basically, as you fulfill your favors, your wishes get granted, but once you've completed them all (triggered it 3 times), he stops granting wished and becomes a virtual vanilla body.
New idea seems to cause memory problems when you got multiple djinns out.
Banding seemed fitting, and it seemed nice how you can give bonuses to all cards in bands. Nothing else atm.
No memory problems if you just exile the cards underneath the Djinn that gave them to you. And if the Djinn dies, all cards exiled under him just go to exile permanently. To do this, though, would the cards need to say "exile under Some Djinn"? Or is that just a memory device that should be left to the player?
Yeah, banding definitely fits the flavor of the Shepherds...it's just a mechanical nightmare. I wonder if there's a workable way to combine the simplicity of Soulbond with the breadth of Banding?
What if there were a Soulbond variant that allowed you to rebond your creatures at instant speed? Something like...
"Linkage [COST] ([COST], : Link this creature to another unlinked creature. They remain linked for as long as you control both of them and you haven't linked either to another creature.)"
And then the cards would be something like:
"As long as ~ is linked to another creature, both creatures have [whatever]"
So it's a bit more versatile than Soulbond, gives the broader harmony flavor (as you can relink to anyone when they need it), and isn't insanely complex. What do you think?
So I've been thinking a lot about the Flamehearts. They're the least well-defined faction here, both in story and in mechanics. What we DO seem to know about them is that Flamehearts are highly emotional, impulsive, and aggressive, and are easily offended and prone to seeking revenge. They're also, of course, masters of pyrokinetics (which would be pyromancy in any other set).
So here's an idea I've been working on for the Flameheart keyword:
Engulf N (Whenever this deals combat damage to a player, it deals N damage divided as you choose among up to N target creatures that player controls.)
How's that? Too powerful? Not powerful enough? Too complicated with the distribution of damage? Just right? Amazing?
Also, considering the origin stories of the creatures on Mentalis, I'm wondering if we should consider bringing back the Transform mechanic from Innistrad? I mean, think of it this way: a Flameheart gets too aggressive and transforms into an Elemental. A Mesmeric gets too powerful and transforms into a Djinn. A Foundry zombie finally crosses the Darkveil and transforms into a Spirit. And for the other colors, we could even introduce minor variations on the mechanic--an earth-based artifact transforms into a Golem Elemental, for example, and a light-based enchantment transforms into a Luminal!
Or things like that. I don't know. Is Transform worth bringing back, or am I just getting caught up in flavor?
Transform could be a thing, for the fire beasts and the mesmerics. Might be better for the set if you just made separate cards for them, though. In that sense, Champion might not be half bad here.
Some Djinn [cost] Creature - Djinn
Champion a [Mesmeric creature type] *Some cool effect* Sacrifice ~ at end of turn.
?/?
Oh, but I guess it doesn't quite make sense with Fire Elementals.
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