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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 8:02 am 
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Cato wrote:
Rstnme, have you been drafting long enough to remember the 40 forest 1 Lost in the Woods deck from Innistrad?


Sadly no. But now I have a new goal in trolling my chaos draft group!

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 10:02 am 
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You actually want to run 42 forests.

I can't remember why, but it was some theory crafting thing.

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 12:03 pm 
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Thought Scour?

And that was more like a sideboard plan,if I remember right.


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 12:32 pm 
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I'm a sucker for premium removal (not worried about finding 20 damage), I'll take the Banishing Light!


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 3:21 pm 
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IIRC, sideboarding against that deck was to play 50 cards, and deck them naturally. Problem was if they boarded into a normal deck. The worst were those that won game one, and then boarded into the 39-Forest deck. Almost never failed.

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 11:31 pm 
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The lost in the woods was generally a sideboard plan for matches you knew you weren't going to win with your normal deck, not a maindeck.

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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 12:14 pm 
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If you saw your opponent go and grab 20 more lands wouldn't you board in disenchants?

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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 4:15 pm 
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Ah, you paper players. You have it so easy :)

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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 5:26 pm 
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I'm a sucker for premium removal (not worried about finding 20 damage), I'll take the Banishing Light!


It's an interesting question, that's for sure. I would say either pick could be justified and that's what I'm looking for, reasons to make picks.


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 5:26 pm 
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rstnme wrote:
Cato wrote:
Rstnme, have you been drafting long enough to remember the 40 forest 1 Lost in the Woods deck from Innistrad?


Sadly no. But now I have a new goal in trolling my chaos draft group!


By chance where do you Chaos Draft?


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 12:10 pm 
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catowner wrote:
rstnme wrote:
Cato wrote:
Rstnme, have you been drafting long enough to remember the 40 forest 1 Lost in the Woods deck from Innistrad?


Sadly no. But now I have a new goal in trolling my chaos draft group!


By chance where do you Chaos Draft?


We do them on our own, but we usually originate at Montasy Comics. Montasy does a chaos sealed at the end of each format too that's usually pretty fun.

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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 1:14 pm 
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Next question:

Wingstead Rider or Akroan Skyguard? Which is the better card to have in a heroic deck? Possible extensions could be, is one better in R/W as opposed to B/W, etc.

Discuss...


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 1:22 pm 
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Skyguard is better on T2. Wingsteed is better on every turn after T2.

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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 2:03 pm 
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It also depends on how all-in you are on heroic. I would play wingsteed in a deck with no heroic enablers whatsoever.

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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 2:10 pm 
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Cato wrote:
I would play wingsteed in a deck with no heroic enablers whatsoever.


:thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm 
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Hmmm. The question is sort of moot because there are almost no situations in limited where you would play one and not the other.
Obviously you have to have a critical mass of targeting spells to play skyguard, but this number is pretty low, like 5 or 6. Rider is a hard-to-cast wind drake with an upside so if you can cast it you will play it.

Generally, Wingsteed Rider is always better in decks with 10+ plains. In fact, according to Frank Karstens' hypergeometric calculations, you actually want 13 white sources to have a 90% chance of casting rider on turn 3 (and 9! for a 90% chance of casting Skyguard on 2). It's extremely difficult to draft or put together a sealed deck that it this consistent, however.

I would not want to run Wingsteed rider in a deck with <7 plains, and 7 seems quite dicey. It would depend on what you are bringing in instead.

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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 2:43 pm 
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In a vacuum, Wingsteed is way better. But the question was about a heroic deck.

I'll play all Skyguards and Wingsteeds I can get in any Wx heroic deck.

In RW, Skyguard is better. You really want a turn-one and turn-two growing heroes in that deck. By turn three, you need to start using tricks to get them through. And the casting cost on Wingsteed can be a problem, especially if you have some Dragon Mantles you want to cast early.

In UW, it's another matter. The two-drop of choice there is Battlewise Hoplite. That deck is more controlling, so an aggressive start is not essential.

I love Frank Carsten, but 90%? What about mulligans? Card draw and scry? The problem with Wingsteed is not that you need :w::w:, you often want a :w: in reserve for a Gods Willing. Anyway, I'm happy to play Wingsteeds with nine plains.

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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 5:02 pm 
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Sorry - It's simulated not just the hypergeometic calc. including mulligans. Not including draw+scry. I think a scry effect is like 1/3rd of a source. Cantrip is probably 1/2 a source.

Obviously everyone plays good CC1 cards with only 9 sources in limited. One of the reasons limited decks are as consistent as constructed ones.

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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 6:01 pm 
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If you have ~10 white sources, shouldn't a cantrip or scry be at most 1/4 of a source?

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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 10:06 am 
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That is a good point, I think I did not cut the sources in 1/2. I was thinking in terms of just getting a land drop.

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