As mentioned above there are different types of trailers, that come out at different times, and serve different purposes. For example thats why you see 'reveal' trailers then later 'launch' trailers.

Don't write off your desire to see gameplay in a trailer as every trailer not including gameplay as some sort of trick to sell people a game they don't want. That's not the intent. And plenty of people enjoy the reveal, and cinematic trailers more than the game play trailers, and prefer to watch actually player's gameplay videos than the company made ones so they know exactly what the final product functions as.

Steam does a lot of sales, and Mondays are now really great since they do a mass grouping of sales that last the week of games most don't play / know about. When the front page launches, I'm gonna volunteer to do a review of one of those games every other week. If only to get myself to experience games that usually don't get much of a spotlight.

~SE++

Sounds like a plan.

I never said that is all trailers. That is putting words in my mouth.

I said that is pretty much what a ton of games do nowadays. Which is correct. Now if you want we can disagree on how many or whether it actually is a lot of games.

But telling me I have a desire to see gameplay in every trailer is a direct misenterpretation of my words and is basically completely missing the point of previous posts. I understand fully that cinematic trailers exist and that they have a purpose.

Here exactly is what I said.

"I don't trust ad campaigns for video games where they put out zero gameplay, and I literally wait for youtube videos if I manage to stay interested that long. This unfortunately seems to be way too common."

Nothing wrong with cinematic trailers there. But I will stick by the idea that only cinematic trailers and zero gameplay released is a bad sign. And "this is unfortunately too common" means exactly what it says. That way too many games do this nowadays. It isn't a majority, but it is enough to form a sizeable chunk.

If I have to go to some streamer not affiliated with you before I can see any gameplay involved with your game, then I am going to be much more wary of it than if you release gameplay in some form. Any form at all.

I'm not putting words in your mouth. But perhaps in the future you'll work harder to write out what you mean rather than constantly posting things as if there is only black and white, and black is bad white is good. You've been doing a lot of that in both Other Games and the OTR, and I've seen some of it in the Off Topic thread of DotP as well. And its not that you need to add a little to clarify what you're saying, its that your first post normally consists of something completely different than what your end argument ends up being, so people are quick to jump in and contradict you because those early statements are often illogical or extremist.

If you're trying to say:

Then you dont start with comments like:
andBecause not only do they in no way support what your argument seems to be the give the appearance that I said above: Wild, illogical, extremist views...followed by backpeddling and trying to change what you said. So lets work on saying what you mean and properly explaining your stance on the issue, and you'll see less of people arguing about how your opinions are wrong when that's not in fact what you're trying to say.

Back on the topic of gameplay trailers though:

You're saying its a trend thats all to common now days, do you have examples? Cause I dont recall the last time a game was coming out that it didn't release a gameplay trailer of some sort. In fact most of them have many different ones before launch. Maybe you spend more time surfing some smaller indy games that don't always do gameplay trailers, but most of the time theres an abundance. Steam normally has two or three gameplay videos right on the store page as well and cinematic vids and screenshots. Even Goat Simulator has multiple gameplay trailers and its still in Alpha

The first post I made I did not give enough information. The second time I posted I did, and I stick by the second post. My third post and this fourth one are both directly consistent with that one, and in the second one I said that I needed to change the first one.

So no, there is no wild backpedaling. And I will continue to stick by the second post. Because it started out "I need to add a little to that I guess", which directly responding to you says you were right about my first post being too specific and ignoring some things.

I said exactly what I meant in my 2nd and 3rd posts. Everything you have said in response after the first time is based on a bad assumption and is, probably through a miscommunication at this point, putting words in my mouth I didn't say.




Has anyone heard of any good indie games that are coming out on steam soon? Something in the platformer, shooter, or rpg genres? I know the Darkest Dungeon thing is something that is in kickstarter and I've been following that, but anyone seen anything else interesting?

Coming April 1st so It's probably an April fool's joke. Maybe?

@Mjack: Stop saying back on topic. For the love of cats, just stop.

For the love of cats?

I could swear its been weeks since I've used that emoticon. In fact....... its been.... at least 2 and a half weeks if not a month.

But okay. I will never use it again.


Still, the question stands. Anyone really excited about something coming out that I might not have heard of already

Also, Goat Simulator looks really bad.

Its not a matter of your first post needing "have a little added" the first post was completely something different than the following ones. See above where I quoted the two lines from your first post that are you making an absolute statement. Then in the following posts you come in and backpeddle to get away from those absolute statements. You didnt come in and say "I dislike when trailers dont have gameplay because I want to see what I'm buying" and then later correct it to say "What I mean is I dislike when a game shows no gameplay footage at all for the length of their ad campaign making it hard to know what you're getting". You came in with the absolute statement of "I no longer pay attention to trailers without gameplay footage." and "I don't care about the movie having absolutely no relevant content to the game but designed to trick people into wanting the game.". Both are statements that cut and dry, nothing to misinterpret. So no, its not a matter of misunderstanding what you said... thats what I'm telling you that you need to work on because its a trend of yours across the board. You're obviously capable of fixing said trend, so lets work on that. Cool? Cool.

Also... did you have examples of games that had an ad campaign featuring zero gameplay footage?

No, the game is very much a thing. It's in alpha and full of bugs, but everyone loves the bugs so they're leaving them in there. Its on Steam and theres a ton of people that already have it and are doing gameplay videos of them having them.

Also, agreed. That smile needs to disappear. In fact most of the time people use it it's used as a 'well this conversation is quickly proving me wrong, lets get back to topic guys' and not because the thread is actually of topic.

That a no?

Same question. Anyone played anything really good lately? Preferably with a demo?

Yup. That's a no.

Oh hey, I need to play Bioshock Infinite : Burial at Sea Ep. 2 Dont see how I forgot that I hadn't done that.

That is a "Jack refuses to respond to baiting in exactly the way the person wants".



Is that actually out yet?

I've been waiting for ever, and I could have sworn it was not out next week.

Edit: Yep. The day after Jack checks the psn store is the day it comes out.

No baiting, no trolling, and no flaming.

You showed up and quite boldly make some rather outlandish claims and imposed your personal opinion as it it were some sort of fact, I simply asked that you provide some sort of back up to those wild claims.

Your statements about ad campaigns that featured no gameplay in them anywhere and that there are trailers out there tricking people into buying games they don't want were just factually wrong. And you cant provide evidence, because it doesn't exist. At its heart an ad campaign is designed to sell a product but that doesn't mean that its some malicious corporate scheme nor does it mean that people cant enjoy trailers that don't feature gameplay. Lets keep opinions aptly labeled as opinions, and if we make such bold faced claims be prepared to back them up ... its how conversation works.

This is 3 days after the last post correct? And it is designed to get under my skin so that I will respond correct? There was zero other reason for posting it other than trying to force a response out of me? Unless I am missing something.

Regardless, my policy is to not respond to this with directly what the question asked for. An emoticon is more fun.


On topic,

thank you for pointing out that episode 2 finally came out. That's now literally number 1 on my list of things I'll get to play when I can get back to gaming on wednesday night. Question though. How long is it? Is it only 3 hours again, or did they put the entire %%% into this one?

I haven't played a demo in.... maybe 10 years. I know some games on Steam have them, but I really haven't done any at all. I dislike demos since you just have to replay that level once you get the full game. It looses that immersion for me, breaks me of the story and that magic circle the game creates.

~SE++

Nah, simply bumping a question from a wall of text when nothing had been said in the thread since. You could have very well forgotten about the thread, or read the post and missed the question etc.

While the "yup that's a not" could almost be seen as baity as it more likely closer to irritating it wasn't the case for that post either I assure you. ((Though it could have probably used an emoticon on it as well to better sum up the tone)) It was more disappointment that rather than back up your claims, or admit your fault, you chose to try and skate around the topic. In fact one could make the argument that Jack is the baiter / troller by going around posting crazy stuff and then spamming the 'back to topic' smilie when people point out how said stuff is wrong. I choose not to see that in his posts though cause I don't think that its honestly the case, but I can hope that he'll work on improving his debate game ... or at least think about what he's throwing out to public forum in the future.

@hunter, Jack does still stand by his posts on trailers.

@squinty, on the flipside though, some demos have prevented me from making very very bad decisions, while others have gotten me to play some of my favorite games I never would have touched otherwise.

I dont think I've played a demo in about that long either though Squinty. I'm not counting Beta-testing though, as they're not the same thing at all.

With the way Steam is most of the time I can pick up the full game at a price where I dont have to worry about a demo to try it out. Never have I bought a game where I felt that having a demo would have saved me from a bad buy... in fact most of the time the response that comes to mind is "Well that game was bad, but I guess I got my $5.99 out of it since it was 80% off on the sale".

Very rarely do I pay full price even for new games, and most of those titles are ones I trust anyway... and even more rarely does a game reach a point where I'm considering buying and have zero information to go on about the game.