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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:37 pm 
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Well, hopefully we can get other people to weigh in on this issue. I mean, just because she's unsympathetic to me doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot. For example, I have no sympathy for Caliban from The Tempest, either, and I think a lot of people would disagree with me on that one. So I'd be interested in hearing what other people think.

Orchish and killer?

M:EMbers?

Anyone else?


I'm probably the wrong person to answer this question, since I've been harvesting more character background from Barinellos behind the scenes. So I can't really react objectively to this story and this story alone.

That said, here's my two cents:

Spoiler

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:16 am 
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Alright, this has helped me focus on getting a better handle on the fact that I need to show the cracks in Alessa's personality a bit more clearly, though I wonder if I'm going to be able to do so naturally. Some of that will hopefully come through in the next piece, but it's going to be slower going because it's still an action piece and I can't just shoehorn that stuff in. There are elements of her personality that I naturally have knowledge of, so an objective read is important in figuring out what parts seem out of sync.

I think at one point I'm going to have to step out of my comfort zone and place her in a totally subdued piece and just get the emotional groundwork out of the way. Part of this will likely be grappling with the fairly complicated abstract concepts that her perception is circular, which does lead to some circular logic on her part, but... well, it's going to be difficult to express those in ways that will be meaningful because it's difficult to divorce our minds from the way we understand the world.

Also, there is a word that I'm trying very hard to remember and the bastard JUST WON'T MANIFEST.

Aside from that, there're two more threads that I could weave in, but it's a lot more background than anything that has a solid story structure yet. Put those on hold and focus on the piece at hand right now.

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Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:42 pm 
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A decklist for Alessa in case anybody gets a kick out of that sort of thing:
http://deck.tk/9Gmj8yG9

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:38 pm 
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Am I correct in thinking this is OL's plane? If it is, you definitely sketched it well with minimal information! So kudos for that. It's consistent with what we've seen in his pieces.

And I got the flowerpot reference.

I agree with your thinking that this is a character morality spot in need of filling in our roster.

There's something else but I can't think of it at the moment. It'll come to me.

EDIT: Oh yes! I like that there are (queer?) poly kinky people in this story :D


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:10 pm 
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Am I correct in thinking this is OL's plane? If it is, you definitely sketched it well with minimal information! So kudos for that. It's consistent with what we've seen in his pieces.


Indeed you are. And indeed he did.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:43 pm 
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Having just read through the story and the discussion in one fell swoop, I'm with Raven in not finding her sympathetic, but I don't... care that I don't find her sympathetic, if that makes sense?

I really liked this story on the whole, but I liked it because it gave me a character that was consistently-painted enough that her actions made sense from moment to moment, which in turn allowed you to explore her spellcasting ability and how she perceives the world. I found myself mentally comparing it to my Innistrad story, actually, and not just for the time magic--it felt like the character was kind of a vehicle for the exploration of the mechanics, and that was fine from my perspective. So, by the end I didn't particularly care whether she lived or died, I was mostly just interested in seeing the collision of various magics progress.
Yeah, I wasn't expecting people to be very invested in her, but I would like them to have at least liked her. I think it was just a conflict presented with the idea of character vs person that kicked me right in the insecurity. Eventually I'd like people to care if she lived or died, but it was clear from the outset this piece wasn't one where you would get inside her heart as much as her head.
I am relieved that my writing engaged you enough that there was a hook for you to keep reading it.

Quote:
It reminds me of the pieces you've done exploring particular duel scenarios, honestly, more than your longer narrative pieces like Legacies.

With that in mind, I do think that I'd like to see more development of the character and more... well... plot in the next story you do, since this really felt to me like almost a testing bed for your ability to convey her character in broad strokes and convey her magical ability similarly. And it definitely succeeded in those things! But if I can offer advice I'd say make the next thing more, well, plotful.

Oh yeah, it's definitely not the same creature as my more meaningful pieces, but there in, this was more about establishing her than exploring her. In certain regards, I'm not happy about that, but it was something that I had to lay out more because she's... a trickier character than most in regards to her hows. Her whats and whys are more suited for narratives, but without getting the structural aspects of her abilities cemented, it would take too much focus in establishing those while I was trying to do something else.

And you don't have to worry, Wild Card certainly has a plot. Though as I've been working on it, it's causing me issues as well.

The other one I'm doing is more an infodump character piece, and I am EXTREMELY conflicted about that, because it has no forward plot, but is big on development. I just... don't know what to make of it. I might just out and out need help on it.

Quote:
Oh yes! I like that there are (queer?) poly kinky people in this story :D

There are actually a lot of deeper identity issues tied into her sexuality, but that's all part of the infodump story.
And she's pansexual. Which gets kind of amusing in an entirely unintentional way. You'll see what I mean when I manage to finesse the character piece.

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:11 am 
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Color me intrigued.

And I did care if she lived! I just cared because I want to read more stuff where you attempt to tackle temporal magic ;) It's fascinating stuff.

Is there a way you can weave the stuff that is in the infodump story into the Wild Card story?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:20 am 
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Color me intrigued.

And I did care if she lived! I just cared because I want to read more stuff where you attempt to tackle temporal magic ;) It's fascinating stuff.
It's a tightrope act.

Quote:
Is there a way you can weave the stuff that is in the infodump story into the Wild Card story?

No. Tonally it is TOTALLY wrong for that.
Wild Card definitely has a plot, but the set up feels a lot like Live for the Moment. I think the problem I'm encountering with Wild Card comes all during the second act, but I blame that on my own impatience. Honestly too, I think there's an elegant solution to it, but it requires directly shining a light on something that I had intended to make a piece of background information to drive home something else.
It feels like doing the "show instead of tell" is going to work better for it, but it means involving one more player than I had planned. I'll have to remap portions of it, I think. There are other implications to that change which require more thought too.

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 9:54 pm 
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Typo:
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letting her sight settled where it normally rested,

Should be "settle".

This line:
Quote:
She couldn’t maintain it for long and time flickered back to normal speed as she jumped forward once more catching another combatant in yet another bubble.

Feels like it could use a comma. I'd put one between "more" and "catching".

This line:
Quote:
She didn’t like to hurt people, but these **** had tried to kill her.

Would perhaps do better without the censored word for two reasons:
1. The censor being there is a little jarring because of it being a censor in the first place.
2. The story thus far has been... lighthearted, I would say. The language hadn't been rough enough for me to have expected Alessa to say something like that.
I believe "bastards" would work just as well since it should get past the censor and has most of the same connotations.

This line:
Quote:
There was only one option left, but it was unreliable at least and might make things a hundred times worse…

Sounds a little off. I think it would likely read better as "unreliable at best", or perhaps just dropping "at least" entirely. Just my thoughts.

Although I had not noticed them on my own read-throughs, I will agree with Raven on the counts of: "It'd cost her a childhood" would read better spelled out "It had"; and that "there was a handful that blazed to her" should be "were" instead of "was".

----

Now, first things first: I realized that this story really works to your strength in descriptions more than usual. I have complained before that your pacing sometimes suffers for your descriptive language, but I think this works very well with the time-magic and future-sight involved in the story. It just really blends together well.

That really leads into my next point: I can tell a lot of thought went into the word choice and symbolism and I both appreciate that and like it in the story. There was a lot of things I can tell were very carefully thought out, with the way the futures are described, the manner in which she casts spells, the sandstorm-in-an-hourglass, her relationship with ghosts, the colors she used, and of course the reference at the end. It gave it a very cohesive feel.

Now, I know talk of Alessa's morality and how likeable the character is, but personally I was more driven by the character's powers (and torn over them) than her personality/morality. Inwardly, I was kind of cheering that time magic was being used at all and that it was being used in a way that doesn't really complicate having a shared universe. At the same time, I am worried that someone who wouldn't understand the fine line you are treading with both the character itself and the powers she has might end up mucking up things unintentionally. Pretty much my entire interest in the character is her powers and how she uses them; I'm neither drawn in by her morality nor repulsed by it.

The work itself, though has a quality about it that, as Keeper said, it does feel like the work is more testing the waters than either exploring the character or setting up a plot. I think it does serve as a good introductory piece, though, and would like to see it in the archives. At the same time, because of the concern I already raised, I'd like to see a character sheet for Alessa very shortly that outlines just what should be done with her and what cannot be done with her for complicating the universe in which we work.

So those are my thoughts on the matter.

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