It is currently Sun Dec 01, 2024 1:48 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Mature Content
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:31 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 11080
Let me pose a hypothetical: If I'm writing a story wherein one of the characters is a female nudist, but apart from mentioning that she is naked, I don't go into describing...anything, is that something people would consider "mature content?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mature Content
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:44 pm 
Offline
YMtC Pro Tour Champion
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 14370
RavenoftheBlack wrote:
Let me pose a hypothetical: If I'm writing a story wherein one of the characters is a female nudist, but apart from mentioning that she is naked, I don't go into describing...anything, is that something people would consider "mature content?"

Nope. Non-visual mediums are funny like that.

_________________
"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

I have a blog. I review anime, and sometimes related media, with an analytical focus.

I'm a (self) published author now! You can find my books on Amazon in Paperback or ebook!
The Accursed, a standalone young adult fantasy adventure.
Witch Hunters, book one of a young adult Scifi-fantasy trilogy.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mature Content
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:14 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 4859
Identity: genderqueer
Preferred Pronoun Set: zie/zin/zir/zirs/zinself
I can't decide if that would be interesting or gimmicky... That's actually a much greater concern for me than the acceptability.

Now, of course, if it comes time for me to illustrate the story, it might get tricky, but I think you can do it tastefully rather than exploitatively. Not like the nude has never appeared in art before.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mature Content
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:30 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 11080
Well, we'll know for sure relatively soon. If I'm really lucky, I'll have the story done tomorrow, but I shouldn't have any trouble finishing it by Saturday.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mature Content
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:49 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 4859
Identity: genderqueer
Preferred Pronoun Set: zie/zin/zir/zirs/zinself
Wait this is seriously a thing that you're making happen?


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mature Content
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:01 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 11080
Yeah, sadly I often use the word "hypothetical" in admittedly deceitful ways. I am remorseful...

:(


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mature Content
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:59 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 26, 2013
Posts: 166
Since I got name dropped, I suppose I should weigh in.

First, are we just equating mature with graphic sex and violence? Or do we allow it to include topics such as rape, torture, abuse and so on?

Personally, I am of the opinion that we should welcome mature content, but not encourage it. There is a place for sexuality and violence within the greater M:EM, and when it does occur, if done well, then it should be accepted without a problem. Likewise, if done poorly but appropriately we should offer advice on how to do it better. However, recalling the previous discussion on the matter, I do not think that the M:EM(NSFW) should become a portion of the M:EM. While it is still just the one story at the moment, it should remain a different entity to allow for things like the Sorin/Avacyn or Bolas/Tezzeret fics while trying to maintain the same literary standards as the rest of the M:EM project, as well as those fics that are just blatantly porn. If its acceptable to post such things here, then fine, otherwise I'm more than happy to keep it a separate, Tumblr-only project.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mature Content
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:15 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 4859
Identity: genderqueer
Preferred Pronoun Set: zie/zin/zir/zirs/zinself
I'd be happy to read more on your separate, Tumblr-only project, Deck... ;)

I think the argument of canonicity vs noncanonicity makes sense, though, as a rationale for keeping the two separate. You can take advantage of that freedom in a way that we can't--or at least in a way that we never really intended to at the beginning.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mature Content
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:24 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
KeeperofManyNames wrote:
I'd be happy to read more on your separate, Tumblr-only project, Deck... ;)

I think the argument of canonicity vs noncanonicity makes sense, though, as a rationale for keeping the two separate. You can take advantage of that freedom in a way that we can't--or at least in a way that we never really intended to at the beginning.

I'm not against drawing up an intimate moment of genuine affection between Lili and Jace.

... Just saying.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mature Content
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:39 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 4859
Identity: genderqueer
Preferred Pronoun Set: zie/zin/zir/zirs/zinself
And I'm not against storing it to my hard drive along with the other JacexLiliana pictures I have >_> <_< >_>


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mature Content
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:06 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 12283
KeeperofManyNames wrote:
I can't decide if that would be interesting or gimmicky... That's actually a much greater concern for me than the acceptability.

Now, of course, if it comes time for me to illustrate the story, it might get tricky, but I think you can do it tastefully rather than exploitatively. Not like the nude has never appeared in art before.

Honestly, the merfolk that I'd concepted a while ago was going to be a nudist, but that's mostly because... well, clothes don't make a lot of sense to her. Different species taboos and morals and all.
KeeperofManyNames wrote:
And I'm not against storing it to my hard drive along with the other JacexLiliana pictures I have >_> <_< >_>


I actually meant as a story. To do a picture right would be a lot more work than I'd be willing to do to make it good.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mature Content
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:11 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 1853
Location: Belgium
Identity: Wannabe Cyborg
Preferred Pronoun Set: He/His/Him
@Tevish: As it stands, forum rules tell us to stay PG-13. As creators, that's inherently limiting and wouldn't allow you to properly write, say, Phyrexians.

_________________
"I'm all for screwing with the natural order. The natural order objectively is awful. The natural order includes death, disease, pain, and starvation." --Sam Keeper


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mature Content
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:08 am 
Offline
Retired Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sep 19, 2013
Posts: 149
This is the first real response I got.

GobO_Fire wrote:
I don't know that it's different rules. We've already said a whole lot of mature content is already OK for the boards - it's one of the biggest reasons the whole, dragging out discussion about a Mature Forum is a waste of time.

Out-and-out porn, obviously, is no good. but here's one of my posts from that thread on Meta:

Quote:
The CoC allows politics ("should pot be legal?" certainly has a big element of politics to it) and religion. Explicitly. It doesn't say those topics are forbidden. It says they'll be watched closely.

I have no problem with a "relationship advice" thread. I have no problem with a thread that seriously asks, "My GF and I want to invite her bestie to join us. How do we do it without her hating us?" I have no problem with a Confessional.

I have no problem with a discussion in the D&D section about how to use prostitution within the game - from how much it should charge to how to sucker the PCs into it to how to use enchantment spells to coerce others into that line of work. I don't have an issue with a Vampire: the Masquerade thread asking how a player's vampire can seduce some normal chick named Bella. I don't have an issue with somebody writing up their own rules about drug use - addition, withdrawl, what happens while high, etc - and asking for feedback.

Any and all of those are OK. The topic isn't the deciding content. The contents of the posts within the topic is going to determine what we do with a thread, or with an individual post in a thread.

Like everything else, we'll monitor it. If we need to request a tag on the thread title so folks know to stay away, we'll cross that bridge when we get there. And if we find we need a "mature" section - either for in gaming stuff, creative, or off-topic stuff - we'll also cross that bridge when we get there.

Stay within the CoC and just about anything is OK. (note: this is not intended as a challenge for you to go find what is and isn't OK. ;) )


(source link)

We've already said there are some pretty wide guidelines, with a whole lot of stuff that would be considered "Mature" in the "OK to talk about" list. And... I actually am willing to have some slight differences in some places than others. Specifically, I'm quite willing to give creative threads a bit more leeway to allow somebody to express themselves.

So while "Chandra/Jace" doesn't mean a darn thing to me, I'll go ahead and say I'm OK with mature content, within these guidelines:

- No explicit nudity in art (to use a bad example: playboy? Maybe OK. Hustler? Not a chance. More to the point, if it's art that happens to contain nudity, I'm OK with it - inside a spoiler and clearly labelled NSFW. If it's nakedness just to be nakedness, then I'm probably not OK with it.)

- Fiction shouldn't have graphic descriptions of penetration. Actually, strike that. Fiction shouldn't have any descriptions of penetration. If a writer can't get across the fact that two people are having sex without describing how the dude is plunging in and out, he/she is a bad writer.

- Similar to the line for sex, are the lines for gore and violence. Pictures do not need to show a dude ripping somebody's heart out of their chest while blood splatters everywhere; stories don't need a three page description of a torture scene.

- Finally, for my standards... anything that include coercion - anything that can be viewed as rape - I would look at with a much closer eye. And such items should have a "trigger warning" and be inside a spoiler.

Now, all that said, this is just my opinions. If Bun is against it, then it's out - she's da boss. If Bun is OK but the majority of the mod crew are against it, I would have to re-think my position.

_________________
Moderator for:


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mature Content
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:07 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 4975
Preferred Pronoun Set: He/him
I agree with a lot of what has been said. It is quite possible to communicate these things without getting graphic, and there is very seldom inherent value in being graphic. But I also agree that it doesn't mean we should dismiss and/or ban anyone who writes graphic mature content. We are here to help each other improve as content creators, so we should give everyone a chance to hear our advice. Then, if they continue to create low-quality smut, then we ban them.

_________________
Come and play 3 Card Magic! The Most Minimalistic Magic Format! (TM)

my ego sig


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mature Content
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:50 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 4859
Identity: genderqueer
Preferred Pronoun Set: zie/zin/zir/zirs/zinself
That's a little tighter than I would like, frankly, but it's manageable.

The only particularly silly thing is the "no art with dudes getting their hearts ripped out" thing because... well... I mean... Macabre Waltz, Disembowel, Mutilate... uh, Curse of the Pierced Heart... Like, I get his point, I suppose, but it's a very poor articulation of said point. It's not even that I want a lot of violence. I'd prefer explicit sex to explicit violence. But like... it doesn't do to pretend that the source material we're working from is squeaky clean and never prone to fits of graphic, disturbing violence.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group