J_A_C

I think there's an assumption in this game that less active = worth lynching. The less active players could be goblins, but the fact that they're not posting could also be because they forgot, etc. The issue is trying to get at "if someone is not helping, they're hurting." I can see that, combined with a non-interactive player using inactivity to veil their goblinhood, being justified early in the game. But we're entering the midgame now; the stakes are higher, we really have to be critical of who we target. I'll go page-by-page today and summarize the remaining players' posts from my perspective. I've been purposefully being vague this time to see who is doing what and saying what, but I think it's time to step my game up.

So I reread everything, and tried to come up with the major points in the game so far:


The Mafia Timeline!

Shockwave07 votes for Elijin
rstnme votes for Shockwave07
squinty_eyes votes for Shockwave07
Confused pretends to vote for Neosilk because he "over-plays the newb card"
felbatista makes a joke about killing Shockwave07 "worked so well for Town" in the last few games (sarcasm)
Neosilk votes squinty_eyes
Elijin votes Shockwave07
Shockwave07 introduces idea of mass claim and calls altimis the "strongest" player
Cereal_Killer notes he wants to comment on mass claim but says he's waiting to see what others say first
felbatista says he doesn't know if massclaim would be a good idea
squinty_eyes asks what is a massclaim, decides they are a bad idea
Garren_Windspear thinks massclaims may even be against the rules, and definitely good for mafia
Confused agrees; asks how useful could they be anyway
Cereal_Killer agrees and says massclaims are definitely bad for town
Freddeh comments to Confused that massclaims aren't useful, tells Shockwave07 to stop, implies he will vote for Shockwave07
Neosilk unvotes from squinty_eyes, accuses Shockwave07 and Zherog
Shockwave votes Confused after saying he "feels good" about altimis; says he likes Garren_Windspear, says nothing about Neosilk, says Freddeh "didn't get what he was trying to do"
Zherog shows up and says massclaim sounded pretty damn stupid until he read altimis's explanation
rstnme comments he doesn't see why he should unvote for Shockwave07
Neosilk says he's "torn" on voting for Shock, that massclaim was a bad idea, but it would be bad to lose Shockwave07 if he's town, presumably bc of other games
felbatista comments he doesn't think Shockwave07 is any scummier than anyone else
Cereal_Killer comments Shockwave07 didn't suggest massclaim, but wanted people's thoughts on one
altimis votes squinty_eyes because he hasn't "posted anything of sustenance"
rstnme comments that really no one has posted anjything of "substance"
squinty_eyes asks altimis why
altimis unvotes from squinty_eyes
Neosilk posts summary (page 4)
squinty_eyes unvotes from Shockwave07
altimis posts top suspects for mafia: rstnme is suspicious, Confused is suspicious but not obvious, and Shockwave07 (doubtful)
rstnme and altimis start to get into it
Cereal_Killer points out the flaws in altimis's logic
felbatista calls altimis's behavior "erratic" and no longer "tending to town"
felbatista posts a summary (page 6)
rstnme calls altimis scummy
altimis misquotes rstnme; others, like Confused and Cereal_Killer, raise questions about altimis's logic
rstnme points out misquote and votes altimis
Zherog posts a long post (page 7), commenting on raised suspicions of Cereal_killer, rstnme's over-simplification, and agreeing with Cereal_killer's logic that altimis would make a good day-one lynch
Freddeh votes altimis
altimis votes rstnme
Zherog posts another long summary (page 8). Says he's suspicious or wants to review: rstnme, Freddeh, felbatista, Cereal_Killer, Elijin, with the main culprits being rstnme, altimis, Cereal_Killer, and Elijin
squinty_eyes comments he'd rather vote rstnme than Shockwave07 or altimis, thereby attempting to fulfill the dream of every player... to kill their DM...
Elijin points out Shockwave07 is keeping his head low
Neosilk votes rstnme
rstnme asks why, since other players have pointed out the flaws in altimis's logic
Neosilk asks to provide links for said poor logic
rstnme posts quotes from Freddeh, Cereal_Killer, and Elijin that all comment on altimis's logic
Neosilk unvotes
Garren_Windspear votes altimis
Elijin votes altimis
Confused votes altimis
Neosilk votes altimis
rstnme unvotes Shockwave07 and votes altimis
Garren_Windspear comments altimis is either scum or trying to shift focus, Freddeh is leaning strong scum, Shockwave07 too
Cereal_killer votes altimis
altimis dies, flips vanilla town
rstnme thinks he's going to die, but he doesn't as Cereal_Killer and Garren_Windspear agree chain lynching is a bad idea
felbatista votes Shockwave07
Neosilk votes Shockwave07
Cereal_Killer votes Shockwave07
Zherog posts these suspects: Shock, felbatista, Freddeh, Cereal_Killer, rstnme
squinty_eyes votes Freddeh
Neosilk unvotes Shockwave07, votes Freddeh
Zherog votes Freddeh
lots of posts on inactivity and stuff
felbatista announces he's the cop, calls out Shockwave07, Cereal_Killer, and Neosilk
squinty_eyes votes Shockwave07
Garren_Windspear votes Shockwave07
Freddeh advises to not lynch Shockwave until Silly arrives
Neosilk unvotes Freddeh, votes Shockwave07
Silly replaces Freddeh
rstnme votes Shockwave07
Zherog unvotes Freddeh, votes Shockwave07
Silly votes Garren_Windspear
Confused "votes" Shockwave07, points out he's dead already
Zherog dies during the night
felbatista has nothing to report, claims mafia has a role blocker
Garren_Windspear claims the following are goblins: Silly, squinty_eyes, felbatista, Elijin, and Neosilk
Neosilk votes Elijin
Neosilk posts another summary (page 17)
Neosilk unvotes Elijin, votes Silly
felbatista votes Cereal_Killer
Garren_Windspear votes Silly
squinty_eyes votes Silly
rstnme votes Silly
Elijin votes Silly
rstnme unvotes Silly

First off, I don't think we can reference other games any more. This is a new game. It's meaningless to "new" players like myself, who only see actions and dialogue in the context of this game. There's also dissonance between saying someone is scum because they're not posting, and someone is town/scum because of how they're posting now versus in another game. It's not a solid reason to cast a vote against someone.

From this, I would say my main suspects are Freddeh (Silly) just for some of Freddeh's posts previously and Silly's inactivity; Cereal_Killer because his posts are very reactionary/band-wagony and he defended Shockwave's massclaim discussion to point away from him being scum; Confused because altimis felt like a bandwagon vote; and Neosilk because he keeps voting and unvoting people, which feels kind of like a con to me, pretending to be invested and summarizing events when you're really just non-contributing.

I'm also neutral on Garren_Windspear and squinty_eyes.

Discuss!

It's hardly moot, as the point is to gauge responses. Silence is always a valid response. Whether you were here when you felt the discussion was at it's height or not, you opted to say nothing. You had to be prompted to do so. Pretty amazing, though, that with only one viable option you managed to not pick it.



The dice thing didn't address anybody. It was a minor sentence in a much greater post. It wasn't even a definitive accusation. Which is why I find it intriguing that you felt compelled to address it.



The point wasn't your final outcome. It was your playing up your actions as something they are not. As I said, you're exchange with Alt was a few scant posts over a short period of time. Re-reading those posts shows that you weren't pleading, you were arguing about what you thought Alt was saying with what Alt thought he was saying. That's hardly pleading. Your quick vote after implies that your interest wasn't really into seeing Alt correct himself, making it more unbelievable that you were pleading with Alt.



Given the entire point is that you had plenty of time between the claim and the official end of day, which came 56 hours later, there's no credit to give. It's a fact. You had plenty of time to post. Plenty of opportunity is another issue altogether. The only reason I mentioned V/LA'ing is because you're trying to make excuses for why your behavior should be acceptable.



The only thing town has on it's side is information, not conversation. We can talk about the sky being blue for days, that doesn't help you catch scum. Let's look at an example. You think Shock is 100% gob. You do nothing with that so that day can produce "conversation". My conversation with Fel leads to a cop claim that results in outing Shock as 100% scum. The cop is now shut down by the roleblocker when pursuing what you thought to be 100% scum initially would have ended day before a claim was necessary and allowed the cop to continue on under cover. In your opinion, this was the correct play for town because it allowed more conversation, correct? No. Because the point of the day is not that you got the most conversation in. It's that you lynched scum. If you think you 100% have scum you do not simply sit on that and then point at it in hindsight because you "wanted more conversation". You point out what you feel to be 100% scum, and make it known that you think it to be 100% scum, and you urge other people to consider it to be 100% scum, while simultaneously bringing up discussion points that you still want to talk about despite there being 100% scum on the table and discuss those points while the votes trickle in and continue to discuss those points the next day in conjunction with the additional information you have from the lynch flip, the nk flip, and any other information that may be been gleamed during the night. A short day when scum has been caught does not benefit scum. It benefits town, as scum has to scramble to compensate. Giving them more time before their unavoidable death to plan ahead and minimize the damage done to them is a service to goblins, not town.

CK is not JAC.
I'll leave it up to him if he wants to say - again, I'm not sure, but, based on some of the acronyms and his wording/style, I've got a strong suspect.

So, rst - I feel like I've been contributing, I've been trying at least...if nothing else, trying to keep people active. I have swapped votes a few times, but, IMO, I've always had reasons and explained them. I'll try and dig around a bit more, but, there's only so much I can do with so many inactive players.

One thing to point out - there's a few people you've not mentioned at all - intentional? Eli/Fel? Both have come under suspicion from others, but you only mention being suspicious of me, CK, Confused and Silly, and neutral on Garren and SE. Does that mean you lean town on everyone else?

To defend my current vote - I thought Freddeh could likely be scum when he was in. Silly has added nothing, and hasn't posted at all in a few days. IMO, keeping Silly alive, while maybe giving us more info now, hurts us in the long run. So, I think there's a better than average chance of Silly flipping scum, and even if he doesn't, it's doesn't hurt us as much as an active town lynch.

I didn't pick fel because he claimed Shockwave07 before claiming cop, then claimed cop, then he was right about Shock. That's an oddly self-destructive tactic for team goblin IMO.

Elijin, I feel like, has posted when I haven't been posting, so I may not be picking up on the context of his posts, but again he voted for Shockwave07 before we killed altimis, then later voted Shockwave07 while pointing out Shock has been hiding, and, again, it would strike me as self-destructive (poor play) to point out your own team's "hiding" and then vote to kill them.

Assuming there's any meaning behind Zherog being killed, then I'd say C_K is a goblin. I, however, do think Freddeh was a goblin too, so I'm OK voting Silly off. I just don't think it'll benefit the town much if we vote off a silent townie. I also want to look at the people saying Elijin is being suspicious, because, again, his anti-Shock behavior was anti-goblin.

I think you need to reread your summary, rst. Eli only voted for shock once, immediately after the game started. Supposedly by dice role.

Wrong. Please see GobO_Scarlet's Vote summary on page 2 of this thread.

Slightly wrong. Eli's vote for shock wasn't the dice roll vote. But it was still early game, as noted by the fact that it's in the vote count you reference. And was "I guess I vote for shockwave in self defense/retaliatory bitterness!". It still had nothing to do with Shock's "hiding" and occurred far before what you claim happened. His vote was still present when he said shock was "keeping his head down", almost a week later. As I mentioned earlier, that post was predominately about Alt though and his vote shifted to Alt roughly 13 hours later. At no point since then was his vote on Shock.

So you're saying Elijin and Shockwave "pretend" voted for each other, and later, on page 8, when Elijin mentions Shock's absence, he was doing so to... give clout to his decision to focus on alt? Could you explain your logic here? Because in that same page Elijin mentions alt might actually be town (which he was) and you might be egging him on.

As another aside, both squinty_eyes and Neosilk argued against lynching Shockwave07 early on.

See Neo, this is exactly the kind of thing rstnme was trying to address when he said:



We're so deep in this game that what happened in the previous one has almost no value. People can change their strategies for whatever reason. You're also basing your readings on someone in an assumption you made that you're not even sure about. It seems to me that you're again trying to remain neutral while appeasing both sides of a heated discussion, just like you did in your first interactions with Shock, which is a behavior I really don't like. And we all know what happened to Shock.



I also think this is a misconception. Lynching an active town member isn't against Town's plans. It gives us information, and that's what's going to make Town win. If you're really Town, you should be willing to give up your head to develop Town's plans.

It seems to me that, if you're really Town like you're trying to sell, you're misinterpreting the game of Mafia. I think it's more likely that you're a Goblin, though, and you're trying to do the exact same thing you did before I claimed to be the cop: pointing to an inactive player to keep the heat off something.

At this point, I think C_K's interactions with Elijin were interesting enough to keep him alive one more day, but him and Neo are big Goblins in my books. The only reason I'm not changing my vote from C_K to Neo (since, as I said, I would be ok to see how the conversation between C_K and Eli develops) is because I think Silly is pretty much dead at this point, and changing now would be pointless. But both of them (C_K and Neo) are the ones I'm going to push.

So I'm not following the logic here. How does lynching an active member provide us information? Surely the death of an active player will result in less information. I assume the logic is if they flip goblin we can suddenly go over there previous statements in a new light yes? But if they flip town then we have learned nothing and actively removed a source of information by killing them. How does that benefit us? At least if we kill an inactive member then we lose nothing if they do flip town - they weren't contributing before and they wouldn't be contributing after. If I'm wrong please explain to me why but I just can't see how killing active players is somehow beneficial for us.

Because, by killing an active member, we can use his alignment to see the true meaning of his interactions. If the person is a Goblin, there's a good chance that the people he was trying to protect are Goblins. If the same person flips Town, we know that the alignment of that person wasn't blurring his reasoning. If he said "I think player A is a Goblin because X and Y", we know that person truly meant it, and we can start looking closely to his interactions.

Just compare this: If we kill Silly now and he flips Town, how can we use this information? The only thing we would know is that he thought you (Garren) did some strange things, but we don't know what. If you kill me now, for example, look how many things you gain if I flip Town. Of course there are many more things you have to look when deciding who to lynch (the reasons I mentioned some time ago why to not lynch me, for example), but I'm just making my point here.

It's called distancing tactics. Early day 1 votes aren't expected to stick, so two mafia players aren't likely to shy away from each other. Especially when it's still in what they call Random Voting Stage. During the actual game though, mafia aligned players will take pot shots at each other, so they can create the appearance of opposition, but they do not go hard at each other. If you look at Eli's behavior toward Shock it fits this MO perfectly.

I'll have to review those interactions then.

Okay, first off, I'll restate/go into depth on what I said about voting an idle player, since the debate is still going:

An idle player increases the majority vote threshold while potentially making that threshold unreachable by their inability to vote(absence based). The later in the game an idle player survives, the more damaging this is to town.

None of this info or no info crap, just straight up, we could hit a situation where we lose because we have clear suspects and cannot deliver on the voting process because a player is flat out idle.

Now, moving along to addressing this post.

Still maintain that it was a moot point by reason of timing. By the time I was able to post, there was no longer any reactions to gauge. You and others had flat out stated it was terrible. The only reaction to gauge is whether I arrived to the party late and jumped on the bandwagon quick enough. So I just moved on, until questioned.

He was assessing players, and his assessment of me mentioned it. It addressed me. Just the same as any assessment of another player, addresses that player.

My original issue with Alt, I pleaded with him to not shut down, and remain patient and open to whatever needed to be done to keep the game moving forward. My vote, was due to logic he employed later which I did not agree with. Nor did you, since I will mention again you sided with me and deferred to me being on point.

Nope, still not addressing the 56 hour point. I've made it super clear I got online once and had a busy weekend thereafter. I wont defend having other things to do away from the forum, especially since most of the game is doing this and apologising after the point.

Okay so this one is a long paragraph. So initially, my internal read on him being 100% does a - not mean I could sway others into thinking that way in the time I had, though I still made a point to mention what I thought the critical point was. B - A player was already pushing for him, who did seem to have more time. A player which you were working to discredit, though you're hindsight claiming you pressured him to reveal cop status. Hindsight claiming sure is pretty easy though. Now lets jump around a bit here...


A Goblins death is not inevitable. It hinges very strongly on whether the town players manage to communicate and co-ordinate well enough to get the better of them before too many towns are killed in the night phase. That communication and co-ordination requires time. You argue a quick day with a easy lynch makes the goblins scramble. Why? The suspect of the minute is down, the quick day likely meant secondary suspects werent discussed in any depth AND they get to make another (likely, doctor might get lucky) kill on a town player. A quick day means that unless you have had have a few long days beforehand with a concise suspect list that everyone is fairly solid on, a day just passed with little information to add to the next day.


And now to address some general things. To start, the more you pursue me, the less solid your points are, and the more suspicious you become, as you're no longer bringing a slew of points to the table, you're aggressively trying to drive home certain points, regardless of what answer I bring to you. Add this to the fact that both previous days you have hounded a town player until you couldnt (Alt was ultimately lynched by the group, Fel claimed cop forcing you to back off) means you've driven hard against town players every day, trying to back them into corners. I know personally its every day, and the rest of the players can see you've done it each previous day (if taking Fel's claim at face value).

Add to that your only incidence of voting for Shock was said to be a pressuring tactic to get him to post, which then got out of control and you obviously couldnt remove it, things get shakier and shakier. In fact, almost all of your core points against me, can be made against you. You defended shock, and only time you voted against him was prior to any solid voting against him. Meaning it could have been the distancing tactic you yourself explain, that just ran out of your control. You've pressured a player each turn, as you say I have. In fact you've done it to near exception of anyone else. Every day, you've taken a target in your sights, and dedicated your whole day to them. The more I look, the worse you seem.

Im not shifting my vote today, because I firmly believe that an idle player is a burden to town, but I know exactly who Im voting for tomorrow.

First, to Elijin's point:



And yes, I know we can't assume people play the same way from game to game, but...it's still information, and we're very limited on information. This is pretty much exactly what Hello World did last game - mostly against SE, but also against others. The last game was my only playing experience in mafia, so, I can't eliminate it from my mind. To me, it's suspicious behavior.



Correct - I'm not 100% sure about my assumptions - I'm pretty sure, but, unless CK says that he was in the last game, I won't know until this game is over if I'm correct.

I think I was pretty clear on Shock. My first reaction, as it was for many of us, was he seemed scummy, for the mass-claim. Then, people explained why it could be a town move, and I flopped back, until Shock stopped posting, then I jumped back on him (from Freddeh, who was also not posting).

I've also flipped on a few others, based on new ideas/information that came to light.

You want my reads? I'll make them very clear here.

I think Silly might be a goblin, and if not, I still think it's a good lynch for town, even without providing any info right now (remember, it's a long game, not a sprint).
I think either CK or Eli are likely to flip goblin - I think it's unlikely that they both are.
If Silly's not a goblin, I think the leading suspects for the last (assuming there really are only 2 left) would be rstmne or confused.

Right now, even though he thinks I'm scum, the only person that I'm almost positive is town is Fel. Everyone else is somewhere on the spectrum, but leaning towards town.

If we do all vote Silly, and he flips town, I fully understand that I might be next - and I'm willing to take that chance, as I still think it's the correct vote at this stage. However, if Silly does flip town, I plan on voting for either Eli or CK tomorrow.

As you said, the only reaction left to gauge was yours. You came back and opted not to say anything. Your response is now being gauged in accordance. You are taking exception to this and coming up with a multitude of excuses as to why your response shouldn't be under the microscope.



You were mentioned in an info dump. That does not mean he addressed you. He asked you no questions, he required no comments from you. He didn't even make a formal accusation and even said at the end of the post that his reads were still mostly guesswork. Despite this you felt compelled to address and defend a random voting stage extremely early game vote. That is text book over defensive. And that is the point.



You didn't plead anything. The exchange goes like this:

Eli: Don't stop talking Alt!
Alt: I never said I was going to.
Eli: You totally said so in your last post!
Alt: No I didn't.
Eli: Yes you did.

That's not pleading. That's you insisting that what you inferred in Alt's posts is what he implied while he was saying you were completely misunderstanding. There's no pleading going on there. Saying you were pleading is deliberately misrepping the situation to make yourself look more townly than is actually true. Your vote is not the issue here. It's just an element that shows that your motivations aren't the saving grace patience you are trying to make them out to be.



Feel free to not address anything you want. It won't change the fact that you had plenty of time to post and you didn't. I don't care if you feel like you have to defend being busy, because frankly being busy isn't the point. You were busy, that's fine. But that doesn't excuse what you didn't do in this game. You say you checked in Friday and opted not to post then and were too busy the rest of the weekend. Okay. You still checked in Friday and opted not to say anything. Again. You see I mention this because I'm establishing a pattern of behavior for you, continually opting not to take part in major discussions. Then when it's pointed out later you make excuses for yourself and seem to think that you should be exempt from scrutiny because you have an excuse.



A) If you don't try you definitely can't. Which you didn't. Which is my point.
B) And his pushing was getting nowhere. You don't think that if you felt that shock was 100% scum, that player could use your support? Instead you jump behind me against the player working against the guy you think is 100% scum. Yeah, that makes sense and seems like a good way to get Shock lynched.
As for you secondary mudsling, I wasn't pressuring him to reveal cop status. I was pressuring him for inconsistency. As I pointed out there were two options there, either he was baselessly pushing for Shock and was a good lynch target or he was working on hidden information. IF the latter were the case, the doc reveal at start of day was a safety net that allowed me to push as hard as I did without fear of losing a town P/R. I didn't press because I thought he was the cop, I pressed because I thought he was trying to capitalize on the heat Shock garnered the day before.



Given were talking about prolonging a hypothetical day in which a player is caught goblin 100% no doubts, yeah it is. Mind you this is one day with one night phase to follow. Coordinating over multiple days is irrelevant because we aren't talking about the passage of multiple days, we're talking about the passage of one. Giving goblins more time in that one day gives them time to discuss not only what they will do when that caught goblin dies and flips, but gives them more time to decide on the most strategic kill to make in the following night, often playing off or messing with what town will be discussing in that extra time. And town is going to talk about absolutely nothing they can't slow the pace of the game down on the next day and talk about, except they will have more information when they do it.



My points haven't waivered. You've done nothing to provide a defense, only excuses that you seem to think make your behavior acceptable. Because of this I have continued my pursuit. You can say I hounded Alt if you want, but all I did there was continually point out why his play was bad. Which it was. I gave him every opportunity I could and only voted for him when he became unruly to the point where he was a clear liability to the town. As for Fel, I was aware of the possibilities before I started my pursuit. It didn't go the way I was leaning initially but still turned out well, so I don't really see fault with my actions there. And on shock, the difference between you and me is my vote wasn't a random voting stage vote. Additionally I voted shock to pressure him into posting and he did before heat on him came too far. I could have removed my vote then if I wanted to. Neo even questioned why my vote was still on Shock days before Fel made his claim, the point at which it would be too late to remove it. Again another opportunity in which I could have easily moved my vote and still maintained any supposed distancing. I may talk in one direction during the day, but my eyes and ears and mind aren't working in only one direction.

The more you post, the more emotive you word your attacks, and the more sinister you attempt to make me look. Are you points failing on merit alone, and you're finding you need to embellish them a touch to maintain pace?

Gauge what though? My basic reading comprehension? By the time I got online, you'd have to a suicidal idiot to post anything other than the established summary, which I still say makes it a moot point. I didnt post until I was asked to, an ask which was prompted by a simple 'Oh hey, I havent interacted with much, what have you?' because it didnt matter. The two results were 'Oh look he said more or less the same thing we have come to agree on' or 'What an idiot, lets lynch him.'

Dice rolling stuff. So first forum game of mafia. Someone mentioned me in their post, so I posted a reply within the context of their mention. I wanted to be a part of the game on merit of being engaged. And my timezone issues meant at that part, I wasnt being. Not to mention people are addressing issues taken up in info dumps constantly. I dont know why you're trying to present me responding to a mention as so significant. (It was also not the first or last mention of the dice rolling, even if you consider in a non-issue, which you're presenting as.)

Alt straight up said he was no longer going to continue the discussion at hand. That if someone else wanted to talk about something new, he would, but he was done with that. Not good. Especially with his history.

Nope, still **** you, I went out for the weekend and as a result wasnt a part of the later half of that day, deal with it. I said I checked in -briefly- and remember I still suspect Fel, so there was no reason for me to blindly accept his claim.

Speaking of claim, havent you previously outright said or strongly implied that you suspected he was a cop and planned to force him to claim, which he did? If so, changing your story a bit. I'll look after, want to get this post out of the way.

I dont know about you, but Im talking about the game in general. Short days arent great for town, not a lot of opportunity to work with each other, etc etc. But sure, narrow it down, Im sure if you get specific enough, you might eventually hit something, god knows.

Oh your conclusion. So its okay for you to declare a player a liability to town? But then build an entire point on the fact that I also said Alt was a liability (before you) and needed to go? Okay then. Your eyes and ears are working in other directions, great! Seeing as you were just critical of me for not sharing my suspicions because I was going after someone else at the time, how about you pony up? Or is this another 'Only applies to people who arent you' clause?

I've been straight up with everyone in all of my dealings. In fact I have openly admitted to making a mistake on my end, and you've let that drop completely. That makes no sense at all. You're driving home points that are built on your speculation of what my intent is, while letting the fact I did make statements without doing my re-read thoroughly, and accused someone based on nothing fall to the side. Hmm Weird.

Also, just for you, there is a likely chance once this weekend gets rolling that I wont much or perhaps at all. Just so you know