Well, here's second draft. I P1P1'ed Emergent Ultimatum, which was surely a terrible first pick, but the next-best card in the pack was like, Blade Banish. Then I got Parcelbeast P1P3, and pretty much stayed the course. I saw a White Mythos really late around P1P6, but since I had no white (or red) at the time I didn't grab it.



I've got Survivor's Bond again and hopefully this time it'll be better since I have more humans, but now that you compared it to Dead Revels, I can see why it's just not a very good card. Maybe I should just cut it - or the 2nd Unexpected Fangs - for Bristling Boar. I'm concerned my power level is quite low though, since I have only one rare and no real bombs. I doubt I'll make 7 wins but maybe 3 is achievable.

Is Unlikely Aid better than Unexpected Fangs?

Dead Revels was solid in decks that reliably turned on spectacle cost. 2 mana for for card advantage, not a 1 for 1. If you can get 2-for-1 value from bond it’s pretty good - problem is that’s not as easy as I hoped initially. I think it’s worth running in this build cause (1) while 4 humans isn’t a number that inspires confidence in reliably achieving both modes, you have some humans worth recurring (mentor, and even bushmeat - who also can put things into the GY for it while netting you cards and some life gain), (2) parcelbeast is worth getting back solo, and most importantly (3) there’s not a lot of competition in sideboard.

I wouldn’t play unexpected fangs unless I had the life gain mentor (or maybe another life gain synergy card I’m not thinking of?), and even then I wouldn’t feel very good about it. I think it’s pretty bad filler. I would easy run Aid over Fangs. It’s a better combat trick (more likely to function as removal), it’s cheaper to cast, and it doubles as a pseudo ‘counter target damage/destroy removal spell’. I don’t like the Boar unless you have a way to give it menace, but it’s probably better than Fangs. Starting Development might be better than Boar, as a one mana cycler that you can cast as a combat trick or make a human mutatable in a pinch.

I’m curious how sultai ultimatum will be for you. I have the impression it’s the worst one in limited. Seems like you really need bombs to make it really worth it, and a lot of the bombs are multicolored. I’m wondering how it will play out with your build.

Switched out Unexpected Fangs for Unlikely Aid & Boar, went 2-3. "Short on power level" about sums it up. I don't think the deck is bad per se, it's just completely uninspiring and has no bomb to carry it should it stumble. Took three losses to:

- Opponent had Dreamtail Heron (mutated from Symbiote) and I didn't draw removal.
- Drew slightly more lands than opponent (10 vs 7)
- Opponent had the flying mentor together with two flying creatures and Skycat Sovereign, and I only had one removal spell.

Only cast Emergent Ultimatum once, and it pretty much won the game when I did. I didn't realize I grab any spell, not just permanent spells. Getting Blood Curdle + Starrix + Sandwurm = opponent conceded. Otherwise it was stuck in my hand once (the mana cost is prohibitive with only Evolving Wilds & Greathorn to fix for it), and other times even casting it would not have saved the game. I highly doubt it's a bomb or anything, in the right deck it could be a good card but P1P1 it should be very far down the pick order list. As for being the worst ultimatum: wouldn't Eerie Ultimatum be even worse?

Never got to pull off Boar + menace (from Blood Curdle) once

Edit: here's the next draft.



P1P1 was Quartzwood Crasher over Blood Curdle, not sure if that was right but I checked Draftaholics quickly and followed their recommendation. Then P1P2 was Parcelbeast, then Blood Curdle, and eventually wound up with this. P3P1 I had the option to pick up Extinction Event. At the time I had barely any creatures with even mana cost (I still don't) & didn't have Dismal Backwater either. Didn't pick it, taking Dreamtail Heron instead. What do you think of that pick?

As for build:

- Frenzied Raptor ought to go well with the two mentors. However, I have no other way to give menace. They should be good with Crasher as well, but then Bristling Boar should be even better.
- No idea how to rate Primal Empathy. It looks really good, but I also got it quite late, perhaps indicating others don't rate it highly.
- I probably don't need Fertillid.
- Not sure if Ketria Crystal is good. On-color mana crystal is about as good as it gets, but taking turn three off to ramp has never felt good to me.
- Fully Grown would not usually be good, except I have Quartzwood Crasher.
- I'm desperately short early-game plays, but it's still hard to imagine starting Keruga as a companion (??)
- I might need Brushwagg as a mutate target.
- Phase Dolphin should be really good with Quartzwood Crasher, but it looks so low on power level that I'm hesitant to start it.

What would you cut? Instinctively, I'm thinking Flycatcher, Fertilid, 2x Frenzied Raptor, and the Ketria Crystal. Slightly concerned I will have trouble with flyers, and Clash of Titans might not be worth running (mainly because it doesn't seem like it'll get a 2-for-1 very often).

Went 7-2 with this Nethroi deck. I felt like I was being pulled in a few different directions, and knew I would have to balance out the human/nonhuman synergies, and I think I found the proper balance. This deck could really get quite a lot of power on board quickly, with the two perimeter sergeants, whisper squad and sanctuary lockdown, which I had not used before and which performed quite well.

I'm enjoying how the flavor of Ikoria syncs up with deckbuilding in limited. The theme in this deck was sending a bunch of expendable humans at the problem, then finishing off with some beasts. Also, extinction event def overperformed in this deck.

@banedon

I haven’t seen Sultai ultimatum cast. Just had concerns about its effectiveness in limited on theory level. Also that opp gets some say in what you get. IF you can cast an ultimatum without compromising your deck too much, they’re prob all worth running. I wasn’t thinking you should cut it, was just curious how good it would be. I’ve seen Eerie in use and it was very strong. In limited you’re less likely to have duplicates - especially your high value permanents - and it’s so backbreaking to flood your board with stuff you’ve cycled, traded off, and opp has spent their removal on.

I don’t have much experience with Extinction Event. It’s seemed ok when I’ve seen it and I’m sure can be extremely strong situationally, but I probably would have taken the Heron like you did. I like Heron and you were already in that color.

I think you can run Blood Curdle. You have Fertilid, Farfinder, Wilds to fetch color (and Parcelbeast can rip thru deck, plus you have other drawers like Empathy, Keruga, Heron, Starrix) - I’d say put in 1x Swamp and Dismal Backwater for 2x Island and run Curdle. I’d want the black source for lurker options anyways.

Re: if you should Keruga companion, I just don’t know. From what I’ve seen of Keruga as companion and looking at your pool, I’d say no. But lot of people think they’re all busted. Just doesn’t seem like giving up 3 removal spells, 2 creature counters spells, and a mana dork with decent early game butt would be worth it. Seems like too much to give up for Keruga as 8th card rather than in deck.

I agree with Draftaholics. Crasher is a bomb that can straight take over the game if not answered.

Because Crystals cycle I think they’re better than the usual mana artifacts, but I don’t think you need it. I would def run Fertilid. I’m a pretty big fan of that card in 3+ color decks, and it’s a decent mutate target.

Primal Empathy is good and even worth splashing for. It grows your small creatures if behind on power level and gets pretty busted when you’re drawing an extra card every turn. That card should not be going late - but human drafters can do weird things.

I think Clash is pretty strong, because it’s more flexible (targeting) than normal fight spells even if you can’t get a 2-for-1.

I don't think you need Stampede. I don’t think it really justifies a spot unless you have a high creature count, and you have plenty of other stuff that draws so not like you’re hurting for ways to gain card advantage.

I would go
-2x Raptors, -1x Crystal, -1x Stampede, -1x Fully Grown, -1x Flycatcher, -2x Island
+1 Blood Curdle, +1 swamp, +1 Dismal Backwater

(Wonder if that will make you too top heavy with ten 4 and 5 drops - some of which can be mutated for cheaper but only have 3 mutatable 1-3 drops - and maybe 1 raptor over 1 Boar is better for curve even though I think raptor is pretty bad filler?)

I would splash Blood Curdle in everything I can.

Followed your suggestion and splashed Blood Curdle. Went 4-3. Mana screwed out of the first loss, and misplayed in the other two. One of them I had so many good options I struggled to decide what to do, and wound up losing. Perhaps the worst mistake was chumping with Farfinder when I still had 23 life, since I drew Starrix next turn and didn't have any good creature to mutate it onto. The other I completely forgot Blade Banish exiles, mutating Boneyard Lurker for no value when I was already under pressure. Deck felt quite good. I actually beat a Crystalline Giant with First Strike, Deathtouch, and Hexproof - I got Crasher down and had enough trample damage to win.

Primal Empathy overperformed. That card is never getting cut from a UG deck, it just generates so much value. As for underperformers, Charge of the Forever-Beast underperformed (Ram Through is pretty much strictly better I imagine) especially since I didn't have that many big creatures, and so did Clash of Titans (although casting Totally Grown on my opponent's creature followed by Clash of Titans was how I got out of one opponent's 8/8 tokens). It's just really hard to generate a 2-for-1 with Clash of Titans. As a generic fight spell it's okay, but it's also five mana and requires me to have a big creature. It's certainly not a good card. Playable, but not a good card. Boneyard Lurker underperformed yet again. As I said, it's just a 4-mana 4/4 that's playable but not exciting. Sure it can buy back a good permanent, but that requires the permanent to go to the graveyard first and it doesn't happen much.

The black splash mostly turned out to work, which was a bit surprising. If I could go back and do it again I'd certainly take Extinction Event then. Also, one thing I learned from the run is that if you have the equal-power creature on the board with Primal Empathy, you draw, not put +1/+1 counters. That was a bit surprising.

How do you rate Ominous Seas? It created two 8/8 tokens against me one game, but opponent did draw it on turn 2 in a cycling deck. It's a terrible topdeck, and might not be playable without cycling.

Does anyone know if Extinction Event kills 0 cmc tokens?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTiYlxjqKw4

In this video NicolaiBolas get's passed a Pack 3 Pick 2 that is missing a common land.... and of course it has an on color rare in it.

How do people find these IQ40s to draft against? Can I get a lobby full of these guys tomorrow?

I view it as a cycling payoff. If I’m in that deck I rate it above average and happy to have in pool, but if I’m not in that deck I don’t want it. It cycles so it’s never unplayable (and saves it from being a truly terrible top deck), but I think bad filler in non-cycling decks. In P1 I’m viewing it as a low D; in P2 or P3 and I know I’m cycling archetype, I’m viewing it as high C.


@sixty - lol, hopefully that was a misclick and someone didn’t actively didn’t waste that pick on land

I drafted Slitherwisp P1p1 yesterday and I was very impressed with it's performance. Honestly I was unable to draft the full "Dimir Flash" deck and had to pivot to a Flash deck with a some mutate and a little cycling for card advantage. I did get Cunning Nightbonder P1p2

I did get 2 Essence Scatter, a Convolute and 2 Keep Safe (only ran 1) but no Capture Sphere, Mystical Subdual, or Neutralize.

Lurking Deadeye killed several important creatures. I got the 8/8 deathtouch Godzilla once, a Honey Mammoth and a couple of others that I can't remember. Most often it was off of a creature blocking Phase Dolphin (I was using to get cards off Thieving Otter) or by being blocked by Facet Reader. Obviously those are important so it was not as optimal as using a Crystacean but I passed on an early Pack2 for something more powerful and it didn't wheel, never saw another. These were 1-for-1s, but it was a trade up in value.

Mutual Destruction worked out very well being played off the Fertilid.

Blitz Leech was also very good (as it should be for 6) and was a 2 for 1 every time I played it.

As you can tell I'm missing some of the better Flash cards, like the sharks, the octopus, the bat. I think someone to my left, maybe even someone 3-5 seats away was also drafting flash but I didn't get the signal until a few cards into Pack 2. I picked up some other value that has nothing to do with flash so I ended up going 5-3 with the pile. But I was very impressed with the Flash deck and with maybe 3 more flash cards it could have been Tier 1.


Couple of non-flash notes; Mutating off of a Fertilid is added value. With Chevill, Bane of Monsters I would put the Bounty Counter on their weaker creature before I mutated Chittering Harvester.

Hard to see Slitherwisp as a bomb. There don't appear to be that many playable flash cards. Still, you did get a lot so grats

This is my next draft where I somehow got passed a Keruga P1P2 (???) after being forced to P1P1 Capture Sphere:



Late into pack 1 I picked Eerie Ultimatum over nothing, then P3P1 I got Biollante. Lol, that reminds me of my first sealed deck. Still, I timed out of one pick and passed a BW dual which came back to bite me.

Ultimatum seems a lot better supported in this deck compared to my sealed deck. Hell I even have the green Mythos to help fuel it. Still, I've got comparatively little fixing, and it seems sorely lacking in synergy - lots of tempo cards, but Keruga does not support a tempo strategy. How would you guys build it?

I'm pretty determined to use Keruga as a companion just so I can see how it works out, but I can easily see putting the 1- and 2-mana cards back in if it goes badly. After all, the power level of Essence Scatter & Humble Naturalist should be significantly higher than the likes of Convolute and Avian Oddity, and while Rockslide should be great I'm already 4 colors without red.

You say that, and then you go and try to force a Karuga deck. I see them as similar cards (except the companion part which gives it a massive advantage). One of the main attractions of Karuga is because you expect to be drawing 2 to 4 cards off him and bury your opponent in card advantage. That's pretty much how slitherwisp works. He's a draw engine on a stick.




You sort of drafted yourself into a corner by obviously avoiding 1 and 2 drops in your draft, which is fine, Karuga on demand is probably worth it. The biggest issue is you don't have substantial blockers at 3 (or 4 for that matter) and very few 1-2 cycling cards which is what you want to be doing with Karuga. I don't see your 2 drops being worth putting Karuga in the deck and the build you have right now is probably the best you can get from that pool. I've played against a Nethroi/Eerie Ultimatum deck in sealed and it mopped the floor with what I considered a good Karuga deck with Lutri in deck. Karuga will give you good cover for Extinction Event cuz the opponent auto assumes Karuga, not the board wipe.

Instinctively a good Karuga deck ought to be better than the best Slitherwisp deck possible. Karuga has a more forgiving mana cost, and it should be easier to skip 2-drops as opposed to draft lots of flash cards (since there aren't that many). Karuga is also always available compared to Slitherwisp which you have to draw. But yeah, I'm guilty as charged I didn't completely ignore 2-drops, but I did raise the bar on the power level required before I draft them, which is why I only have a few 1-2 mana cards but they're very playable.

Would you play red for Rockslide?

No because 1 of the 2 duals you would put in doesn't help you play Ultimatum. Muddying the waters for 1 removal spell is not worth it IMO.

You keep saying this but there are several flash cards.

For your rare slots;
Slitherwisp - The card that fuels the Flash deck
Dirge Bat - Repeatable removal on a body
Sea-Dasher Octopus - the other Flash draw engine. Mutate this on a flyer for pure win
Voracious Greatshark - removal on a body
Lutri, the Spellchaser - Double up on removal or card draw

Shark Typhoon - The cycle ability fits nicely in a Flash Deck

Uncommon:
Pouncing Shoreshark
Cunning Nightbonder - protection and allows you to double spell earlier
Mystic Subdual

Neutralize - Not a flash card but fits in Flash deck better than anything else except cycle.dec


Common:
Blitz Leech - Removal on a body
Lurking Deadeye - Removal on a body
Mutual Destruction
Capture Sphere
Crystacean - sets up Lurking Deadeye
Adaptive Shimmerer - I think people are sleeping on this. It gives all future Mutates +3/+3!!!
Springjaw Trap

Essence Scatter - See Neautralize

Non-Dimir Flash Cards:
Solid Footing



Obviously, yes, it's a fringe archetype. And my deck was not a pure Flash.dec, but it also went to 5 wins. With more flash I think I could have went to 7. Honestly, the only card that really pulls you into a flash.dec is Slitherwisp. And that's part of the problem, because all of the other rare Flash cards are probably going to be picked up by anybody in Black or Blue because they are that good, even outside of flash.dec.

Bonder's Enclave - How do we feel about this card?

I love the ability. Most decks can get meet it's requirement, and a repeatable Draw one for 3cmc. The only problem is the colorless mana and how many picks you want to spend on land.

My main concern with running Rockslide is the fact that you suddenly run 9 tapped lands, even with no plays before turn 3 that feels like too many for me.

I'd rather run an 18th land over something (probably the Convolute); your deck needs all the landdrops it can get.

Sorry didn't see your post before I played the deck. I'd thought having the mana rock would compensate not having the 18th land, but there's a good chance you were right about it. After all, the deck never runs out of gas thanks to Keruga.

I did -Mythos +Coordinated Charge (more on this later) and went 4-3. Deck was meh. I can see the allure of playing Keruga and indeed, the card was absurd, often drawing 3+ cards when it enters play. What's more, Keruga can be recurred by Biollante & Eerie Ultimatum. If anything the amount of card draw made me concerned about decking a couple of times. Keruga also made it so that I practically never lose the late-game. However, not having any plays before turn 3 is a huge drawback. I lost a couple of games to opponent simply tempoing me out when I was on the draw. Even if I could play some blockers, they would use their combat tricks/removal and hit me for a few more points. If I ever draft this again I will put a heck load of emphasis on 3-drops (missing that too is simply unacceptable), and get defensive creatures too. On a side note, I suspect it's desirable in BO3 to put Keruga into the mainboard (and siding in 1/2-mana cards) on the draw against an aggressive deck.

Overperformers:

- Extinction Event. The card was incredible, and was often a 3-4 for 1 that killed my opponent's best creatures. I don't know if I just got lucky, but the fact that I get to choose which number + when to cast it had a huge impact.
- Keruga. See above. This card should never be passed P1P1, it's a bomb.
- Pouncing Shoreshark. Exclusion Mage was already a good card, and being able to do this at instant speed is huge. The body is respectable too. Unfortunately it can't target your own creatures (c.f. Pacifism, Capture Sphere), but I think it's still a top-tier blue card.
- Biollante. Mutating this was usually game over.
- Indartha Crystal. Amazingly, this card overperformed. The ramp + fixing was not just appreciated, it's a 3-mana card to draw cards with using Keruga.
- Convolute. Like Indartha Crystal, this card amazingly overperformed. I don't think it's good in general and maybe it's my opponents not respecting it (which is possible, since it's not a good card in most draft formats), but it caught several big creatures in the run.

Underperformers:

- Wingfold Pteron. Don't put this card in your deck. I was actually under the impression that this had natural flying, except of course it doesn't.
- Charge of the Forever-Beast. It's not that the card is bad, but that I didn't have enough big creatures to use it with (I can't use it with Keruga either).
- Mythos of Brokkos. It was terrible. First it conflicts with Biollante & Eerie Ultimatum (cast either of those and suddenly there's nothing more to return), second it's so mana intensive. Like, it's 2GG. Soul Salvage is just 2B, and that's already not a high pick. Since all my cards are 3+CMC, I'm not likely to be playing anything else on the same turn, making for a huge tempo loss. The ability to tutor a target is nice and dandy, but in my deck I'm winning the late-game anyway so it's unnecessary (plus thinning my deck could actually lead me to deck out some times). This card might not be playable, unless one is in Sultai colors and needs some grinding power. That seems like a big ask.

Eerie Ultimatum was okay. Like mutating Biollante, it was usually a game-winning card if cast in the late-game, but it's of course very hard to cast and a dead draw early. I imagine a fair comparison is something like Overrun. Avian Oddity was surprisingly okay, but mostly because it was a reasonable blocker as well as a flying mutate target. I don't think it's good in general; it's playable but below average. Fertillid was meh. I didn't have time to ramp, and it's not exactly a good mutate target since the ground stalled quite a bit.

In addition to how to draft Keruga, I'd say a lesson I learned in this draft is to get mutate targets. Mutating onto Farfinder is great, mutating onto Bristling Boar is much less great. Acceptable on some board states, but in general one should be aiming for more.

Funniest play of the run has got to be when opponent cycled Easy Prey against me

Technical notes:

1. If you bounce a mutated creature, both cards return to their hand.
2. Tokens count as even CMC for Extinction Event.

Yeah, once you are in a Mutate deck you want fodder for these cards, like Farfinder, Glimmerbell or Almighty Brushwagg. Heck, one Sealed run I was so high on Mutate (two Parcelbeasts, a Gnarr, two Greathorns plus some more I don't recall) and so low on early plays (one Glimmerbell as 2-dork, plus a few 3s such as Farfinder or Otter) that I mainboarded Aegis Turtle of all things.

Pteron is pretty bad and in most decks I wouldn't run it; in yours I figured you might need a surefire blocker at times (that's basically what the card is; stop the air or block on the ground while unable to be removed). I'm surprised Convolute did so well for you though; in general the card wants you to be a rather quick deck so you can keep being up in tempo, which you certainly won't do given you have Keruga.

A crystal of some sort is your best friend in Keruga decks; you need ramp to double-spell early (and because your overall deck's mana cost is bound to be very high with 22 3+-drops) and most creature based ramp (Naturalist/Parcelbeast/Greenhorn) doesn't work because of the no-2-drop-clause (which means you cannot Mutate on turn 3).

Mythos of Brokkos is actually a great card IMO, but your deck probably didn't have the tempo to spend to cast it; you basically need to impact the board every turn. If you're not at least splashing both UB, the card's a lot less exciting, but still playable in some decks.

I like it ok - problem is this set often leads to 3+ color decks where a colorless hurts the mana base. Have to think of it as a spell rather than a land in some builds, imo. If I’m 1-2 colors and have the 4 power support to trigger it, I’m pretty high on it. It might make the cut in 3+ color deck with acceptable 4 power support, but I’d be looking to replace a poor filler spell to free up the deck slot.