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Deckbuilding contest poll (rakdos aggro)
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Author:  Giocher [ Sun May 14, 2017 7:23 am ]
Post subject:  Deckbuilding contest poll (rakdos aggro)
Time for the first poll of this new season, It's spike time! The theme of this week is Rakdos Aggro, one of the most competitive and consistent archetype in duels right now. Here's the rules: viewtopic.php?p=559505#p559505
Anyone can join this poll, by building all these decks and testing them. Then you can vote up to 2 decklists, the one with the best record and if you want the one with the second best record or a decklist that you enjoyed particularly.
It will be nice if you can also post the record for any decklist and leave feedbacks for the decks you enjoyed. Only the best decklist will win, but having feedbacks for all the decklists is appreciated and also a reward for people who joined this contest.
Let's see the options:

Black as Night, Faster than a Shadow - Sjokwaave


Gabrosin - Black Barney


The old brutal raw power - WoodlandWanderer


AKH Rakdos Vehicles - DJ0045


Scuderia Ferrari - Haven_pt


Raggros - Modulo


Hell is Where the Heart is - The Secret of TIMH


Hellbent madness all in! - Cucho Lambreta


Rakdocide - InfamousGemini


Madness of Rakdos - Red Acuta



10 decklists submitted this time, they are quite similar but only one is the most optimized that i, err i mean someone, will use to win the tourney.
The poll will be open for 10 days, they should be enough since games will be fast and even building decklists since you build the first one and then only need to change 5 cards to have another. But again i can add more days at the beginning of next week.
Here's the list of the deckbuilders: Black Barney, Cucho Lambreta, DJ0045, Haven_pt, InfamousGemini, Modulo, Red Acuta, Sjokwaave, The Secret of TIMH, WoodlandWanderer.

A couple of notes. Wanderer also posted some comments, some changes for the tourney and a sideboard, so if anyone is interested can PM me or him for that. Also i appreciate Haven's attempt to bribe me :P
I was dying inside looking at all these aggro lists, i'm not very good at naming too so if you have suggestions for other names (you will recognize what i named) i will change them.

Again have fun testing and let's the ladder massacre begin :party:
Author:  InFaMoUsGeMiNi [ Sun May 14, 2017 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Deckbuilding contest poll (rakdos aggro)
I'm actually going to test these against AI to see how smooth these decks are.

_Shockwave's deck is the most similar to mine.

_Barney's deck is more vampire centric with Alms of the Vein being the most unique card. He's also running Pia and Kiran Nalaar and Chandra, Torch of Defiance.

_WW's is more midrange with no Vampires but a heavy theme on artifacts.

_DJ's is interesting as it's more energy focused and runs 23 lands.

_Haven's list looks interesting but seems all over the place. He's the only one playing Googles and Aether Chaser.

_Modulo is trying out Bone Picker, 19 lands which SEEM inconsistent, and is the most aggressive. I'll love to give this a try.

_TIMH is running a higher curve with 19 lands...I don't know about that!

_Cucho is running Glory Chaser + Aura??? Cool.

_Red. Did everyone just forget about Exquisite Firecraft?

_For my deck I probably wanted 3 Swamp 13 Mountain and it may make the deck smoother instead of 4 Swamp. I'm also the only one playing 4 Shocks.
Author:  callmemaggit [ Sun May 14, 2017 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Deckbuilding contest poll (rakdos aggro)
Most of you go to 4 CC cards, some up to 5...most of the builds lack lands, imho...19-22 lands are too few for that.

Some exceptions: Modulo (21 lands, but tops at 3 CC, so ok) WW (25 lands, whoa...are u ok, dude? I'm not acustomed to such realism levels...) or, more at the limit, DJ/Haven with 23 lands but topping at 5
Author:  Sjokwaave [ Sun May 14, 2017 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Deckbuilding contest poll (rakdos aggro)
I have one dedicated 4 drop (you can madness out Priest) off 22 lands. That is a nice sweet spot; running more just means flood. Plus even if I can't cast Hazoret I can always discard it for something else with Copter/Key.
Author:  The Secret of TIMH [ Sun May 14, 2017 10:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Deckbuilding contest poll (rakdos aggro)
InFaMoUsGeMiNi wrote:
_TIMH is running a higher curve with 19 lands...I don't know about that!


I know right? On paper i should be running a few more lands, but in practice it's been fine. Alms/Tempers are one mana spells most of the time so curve is lower than it seems at first glance.
Author:  InFaMoUsGeMiNi [ Sun May 14, 2017 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Deckbuilding contest poll (rakdos aggro)
The Secret of TIMH wrote:
InFaMoUsGeMiNi wrote:
_TIMH is running a higher curve with 19 lands...I don't know about that!


I know right? On paper i should be running a few more lands, but in practice it's been fine. Alms/Tempers are one mana spells most of the time so curve is lower than it seems at first glance.

I almost went for Alms but instead choose Shock for flexibility. Also, I would need a reliable madness outlet.

Time to test these!
Author:  The Secret of TIMH [ Sun May 14, 2017 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Deckbuilding contest poll (rakdos aggro)
Sjokwaave wrote:
I have one dedicated 4 drop (you can madness out Priest) off 22 lands. That is a nice sweet spot; running more just means flood. Plus even if I can't cast Hazoret I can always discard it for something else with Copter/Key.


Based on the formula here, you're just under the 23 land threshold.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/br ... many-lands

Mine is slightly lower than yours, so on paper I should be running around 22 as well. But when I build V1 I ran 21, and found flooding out loses games more than being mana starved does. I don't want to hit a land drop T1-5, I want 3 land in play for most of my work, and 2 is typically enough to carry a few turns of missing drops. I have found myself mulliganing to 6 a bit more often to get a starting hand with 2, but in a hellbent deck that's not necessarily a bad thing.

I think for hellbent decks with filtering options, running a couple lands fewer than you normally would isn't bad. If drawing the higher end cards before having mana to cast them, you just pitch them to discard/filter effects.
Author:  The Secret of TIMH [ Sun May 14, 2017 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Deckbuilding contest poll (rakdos aggro)
InFaMoUsGeMiNi wrote:
The Secret of TIMH wrote:
InFaMoUsGeMiNi wrote:
_TIMH is running a higher curve with 19 lands...I don't know about that!


I know right? On paper i should be running a few more lands, but in practice it's been fine. Alms/Tempers are one mana spells most of the time so curve is lower than it seems at first glance.

I almost went for Alms but instead choose Shock for flexibility. Also, I would need a reliable madness outlet.

Time to test these!


Yeah, does need discard outlets to be more valuable than shock. That's why I'm running max Dragoon. I felt the lifegain for aggro mirrors and the extra point of lifeloss was more important than Shocks flexibility in hitting creatures. With your build tho you don't need black as much so there are def benefits to that.
Author:  Haven_pt [ Sun May 14, 2017 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Deckbuilding contest poll (rakdos aggro)
Testing methodology:
Take each deck On the ladder and play until it loses. (lets see if I have enough time)

Btw Gem stole my deck name! :p
Author:  The Secret of TIMH [ Sun May 14, 2017 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Deckbuilding contest poll (rakdos aggro)
So the split is 7-3, hellbent-vehicles. I'd classify the vehicle lists as aggressive midrange, but close enough and it would be more boring to test if no lists had anything higher than a 4 drop.

Only 2 decks run a Planeswalker.

All 10 run Scrapheap Scrounger

All but 1 list run Smuggler's Copter

All but 2 lists run Bomat Courier

All but 2 lists run Unlicensed Disintegration

A few cards are represented in 7 lists, but I don't see anything else with 8 lists in common. (Maybe missing something, hard to compare without viewing them all side by side on a spreadsheet).

I'm excited to start testing tonight! I'll stream & share if builders are interested to see me piloting their stuff. Really curious to try the lists that are running Insult // Injury. That's a card I wanted to fit in but couldn't make room for it in what I was trying to do.
Author:  Giocher [ Sun May 14, 2017 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deckbuilding contest poll (rakdos aggro)
Haven_pt wrote:
Testing methodology:
Take each deck On the ladder and play until it loses. (lets see if I have enough time)

Btw Gem stole my deck name! :p

I gave it that name, i already had no imagination for Barney's deck that is second on the list (i gave the name of the original deckbuilder). So when i arrived at 9th deck i have no idea what i did, probably i have looked at your list time ago.
Author:  Haven_pt [ Sun May 14, 2017 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deckbuilding contest poll (rakdos aggro)
Giocher wrote:
Haven_pt wrote:
Testing methodology:
Take each deck On the ladder and play until it loses. (lets see if I have enough time)

Btw Gem stole my deck name! :p

I gave it that name, i already had no imagination for Barney's deck that is second on the list (i gave the name of the original deckbuilder). So when i arrived at 9th deck i have no idea what i did, probably i have looked at your list time ago.


Oh, ok...
The nerve of some people... Submitting decklists without bothering to give them cool names!
Author:  Sjokwaave [ Sun May 14, 2017 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deckbuilding contest poll (rakdos aggro)
For all those who submitted hell bent lists, here is the theme song for this contest:
Author:  Black Barney [ Sun May 14, 2017 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deckbuilding contest poll (rakdos aggro)
Looks like fun!!! Haven stole my testing methodology!

Joker, I'm going to test all of these so if you wanted to share WWs comments that could be helpful. I don't care about the sideboard or changes to tourney version, but if he has any tips, I'd like to see him. Timh has shared some good tips with his that found helpful

I'm only really confident playing DJs and TImh's lists. I'm not bad with Gabrosins. Can't wait to play all of these!

Good analysis Gem, that was fun to read


Hey if I vote early, can I change my vote after?
Author:  WoodlandWanderer [ Sun May 14, 2017 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deckbuilding contest poll (rakdos aggro)
it wont take long... like each list play 10 games, and even just from mulliganing you'll know how 25 lands gives you peace of mind. You won't be struggling with keeping a 2 lander and getting stuck at 2...

Where does duels cards power reside? between drop 2 and drop 3 right? Without turn 1 untapped dual land I'd never build a non-mono colored deck with less than 24 lands. Our 1-drops in dual colored decks are just enabling T3 double spell at best with another 2 drop. There's almost no way you have 14 untapped source of red or black to start curve from t1 adept or dread wanderer. We need those 2-3 drops to take over a game and punch hard... now look at TIMH's linked article above you'll get how 25 lands isn't crazy. To me it's the most sane choice along with copters, key, pia that can utilize the excessive lands. The real craziness seems to be playing 2 key to the city with 19, 20 or 21 lands.


My comments were basiclally these-
Use haste creatures and vehicles to attack brutally. Typically 3-5 damage on T3, close to 5-10 damage on T4, finish up or greatly cripple opponent by T5. Even if opponent is alive by then, most top deck has built in reach (3/2, 4/4, 5/3, 5/4 haste, temper, disintegration...) Try to double spell on T3-T5 to maximize damage. 25 lands make sure to curve out to at least 4 preferrably 5. This deck is tuned for ladder and can be better balanced for tourney play. As you know, these two colors have some really good sideboard choices vs. aggro, midrange and control. anti aggro of course harvester, push, spray, anti midrange glorybringer, pia kiran (so 25 lands make more sense...), anti control key to the city, chandra torch, siphoner, read the bones etc.
Author:  Black Barney [ Sun May 14, 2017 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deckbuilding contest poll (rakdos aggro)
Can you explain the Key to the City part?
Author:  The Secret of TIMH [ Sun May 14, 2017 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deckbuilding contest poll (rakdos aggro)
Hellbents are supposed to be a little crazy imo. Not only thematically (this is madness!), but it's best as an all-in strategy. At least in my experience. The lists that aren't trying to get hellbent are a different sort of beast tho.
Author:  WoodlandWanderer [ Sun May 14, 2017 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deckbuilding contest poll (rakdos aggro)
Black Barney wrote:
Can you explain the Key to the City part?


my 2 cents... card draw is good but paying 2 mana for card draw in this deck isn't the best... A lot of times you probably just use key as a madness enabler to cheat out a spell, but the next turn if you choose to draw a card, you almost have to skip a turn... especially deck plays less than 22 lands and almost can't find the 3rd/4th land.
Author:  Auunj [ Sun May 14, 2017 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deckbuilding contest poll (rakdos aggro)
Why isn't anybody plaing Bloodlust Inciter? Seems like a great t1 play for aggro with t2 brawler, siphoner or any of the 3 power creatures.
Author:  The Secret of TIMH [ Sun May 14, 2017 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deckbuilding contest poll (rakdos aggro)
Idk about others, but in mine I'd only want to play it T1 and never else. Terrible top deck in my type of list, and not great in other lists in general I think (tho I might be inclined to run him in Gruul monsters). And T1 I'd prob rather cast Adept/Wanderer/Courier instead because they either have menace, more damage output, or haste themselves.
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