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Orzhov Trials
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Author:  GodOfAtheism [ Tue May 09, 2017 2:02 am ]
Post subject:  Orzhov Trials
Kind of a goofy deck, but sometimes pretty good. I feel like it's missing something it should have but I can't quite put my finger on it, so I'm crowdsourcing.

4 x Cartouche of Solidarity
3 x Trial of Ambition
2 x Hidden Stockpile
4 x Heliod's Pilgrim
1 x Bontu the Glorified
3 x Trial of Solidarity
4 x Cartouche of Ambition
2 x Anguished Unmaking
1 x Liliana, the Last Hope
1 x Oketra the True
1 x Angelic Destiny
2 x Anointed Procession
1 x Retreat to Emeria
3 x Cast Out
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 x Sigil of the Empty Throne

9 x Plains
7 x Swamp
2 x Shambling Vent
1 x Westvale Abbey
2 x Isolated Chapel
4 x Evolving Wilds
Author:  Haven_pt [ Tue May 09, 2017 5:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Orzhov Trials
Maybe Weaponcraft Enthusiast and Angel of Invention.
I'd add the 3rd hidden stockpile.
Author:  Hello World [ Tue May 09, 2017 5:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Orzhov Trials
I'm a little concerned that often I might not be able to make a meaningful play until i find my fourth land.
Author:  The Secret of TIMH [ Tue May 09, 2017 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Orzhov Trials
Seems to want more creatures. 8 cartouches but only 6 Creatures (7 counting Gideon +0). Seems difficult to cast cartouches or get the Stockpile train going.

I'd maybe consider adding Yahenni (hard to kill, plays well with stockpiles), Weaponcraft Enthusiasts, Ayli, the 2/3 deathtouch lifelink vampire, Doomed Dissenter, or Carrier Thrall - just options for bodies in the 2-3CMC range. Or sweepers at the very least - something to help you live long enough to cast Sigil.

Maybe Abzan is better for Trials/Cartouches/Sigil? Opens up access to Green Trials for their 4/2 beasts and Green Cartouches for fight removal. In all honesty tho, I sat down wanting to build something like this but couldn't do it because Trials/Cartouches seemed convoluted compared with Conviction/Sigil. Plus issues with overcrowding 3 spot.
Author:  GodOfAtheism [ Tue May 09, 2017 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Orzhov Trials
Well, I have a list of things I'd like to add. Blood-Cursed Knight was in originally, but I cut those for the Gods and Lils. I had a 3rd Stockpile but cut it for 25th land. Ayli, the Angel, Gifted Aetherborn were all considered, but I think my only cuttable cards are less copies of Cartouches, Pilgrims, or Retreat to Emeria. Especially if I put Angel in, I need to stick with 25 land. I could maybe cut Retreat, don't use Angel, and cut a land, which opens up two slots - Maybe Ayli and third stockpile? Cutting Pilgrims seems like the wrong move since it's not going to increase the number of bodies in the deck, and fetching Destiny or Cartouches is of potentially immense value. I also feel like I want Read the Bones somewhere as I have a decent amount of life gain, a slow deck, and a curve mostly at 3. I'm going to run out of cards late.

Sweepers weren't an issue in the three games I played because of bouncing Trial of Ambition via Cartouches. I could especially see Dusk // Dawn if I go with Ayli/Gifteds since everything I have is immune by virtue of having power < 3 or Indestructible except Angel tokens - and I probably don't need sweepers often once they're online.

I guess I'm overwhelmed both by the possibilities and the fact that there seems to be few cuts I can make. Even Bontu serves a purpose if attacking is unprofitable for some reason because I can bleed the opponent out.

Gah! Decisions are hard.
Author:  The Secret of TIMH [ Tue May 09, 2017 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Orzhov Trials
I'd need to play it to see how important things are, but initially would think Retreat for sure can be something better, also possibly 1-2 black cartouches, 1 white trail, 1-2 pilgrims (nice to have for fetching up Destiny, but diminishing returns for a crappy body after the first).
Author:  GodOfAtheism [ Tue May 09, 2017 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Orzhov Trials
Trying -2 Cartouche Ambition, -1 Trial Solidarity -2 Pilgrim, -1 Plains, -1 Retreat, +3 Gifted Aetherborn, +2 Ayli, +2 Dusk // Dawn.

Still can't find room for 3rd Stockpile or Read the Bones. We'll see how Dusk // Dawn does.


ETA: Yyyyeah, the DT/First Strike subtheme is nutty against Gruul decks that are trying to out-big me and running next to no removal. The Vigilance from Trial of Solidarity just seals the deal. Pondering more DT critters but my only real option is Rancid Rats, or Aether Poisoner, neither of which is stellar.
Author:  Kel'Thuzad [ Tue May 09, 2017 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Orzhov Trials
Idk about going Orzhov for a Trial deck. The black Trial is good, but the Cartouche is just so "meh" at 3cmc (although I see you've already cut 2 in your latest post).
Author:  GodOfAtheism [ Tue May 09, 2017 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Orzhov Trials
Honestly the lifelink on it has been pretty relevant, and given my main form of removal is a sacrifice effect, having -1/-1s to off tokens is desirable. It's not the best card in the deck, but I'm rarely sad to see it.
Author:  GodOfAtheism [ Tue May 09, 2017 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Orzhov Trials
So what I'm noticing is that I rarely draw or use the Stockpile/Procession/Sigil package. This might be more interesting - dare I say competitive? - if I gut the enchantment theme and go more aggressive with flying/vigilance/DT/first strike and drop all the subthemes to Cartouche/Trial. A version more competitive for duels, and then split this version off as a "long game" version and slide it more towards 2HG.

Anyone else been testing this or anything like it and have feedback?
Author:  Hello World [ Wed May 10, 2017 5:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Orzhov Trials
Just saw it on reddit: sram.
Author:  TheFlakyMage [ Wed May 10, 2017 9:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Orzhov Trials
Hello World wrote:
Just saw it on reddit: sram.


That was the first card I thought of, but even before he cut 2 of the :b: Cartouches there were only 8 cards in the deck that would trigger him and now just 6. Its still value, and a needed body, and a 2-drop, so worth considering. Just not as amazing as you'd expect in an enchantment deck.

IMO the whole Bontu/Stockpile/Procession package is too slow and clunky and doesn't really relate well to the rest of the deck. I'd look at refactoring that part into a janky 2hg Zombies build.
Author:  GodOfAtheism [ Wed May 10, 2017 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Orzhov Trials
Hello World wrote:
Just saw it on reddit: sram.


Yeah, if I ran more auras, or we had any good equipment. If I go more aggro there may be some copters or something. I'm going to fool with it in a few here.
Author:  GodOfAtheism [ Wed May 10, 2017 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Orzhov Trials
Okay, so aggro version:

4 x Cartouche of Solidarity
3 x Fatal Push
2 x Hanweir Militia Captain
3 x Gifted Aetherborn
4 x Aether Poisoner
2 x Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
3 x Trial of Ambition
1 x Bontu the Glorified
3 x Weaponcraft Enthusiast
2 x Trial of Solidarity
2 x Cartouche of Ambition
2 x Anguished Unmaking
1 x Liliana, the Last Hope
1 x Oketra the True
1 x Angelic Destiny
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 x Dusk // Dawn

5 x Plains
6 x Swamp
3 x Aether Hub
2 x Shambling Vent
1 x Westvale Abbey
2 x Isolated Chapel
4 x Evolving Wilds


Debating on finding room for Always Watching now that I have a significant group of non-token critters. If I go that route, it'll end up a different deck because they'd probably go in over Trial of Solidarity, then the B Cartouches probably cease to be worth it. W Cartouche and B Trial would be only ones left just because FS+DT+Reusing an edict is still pretty good. B Cartouches would become...Dread Wanderer, might be? At that point there's no real draw and not sending cards back to hand often, so might be able to recur the 2/1.

ETA: I really think there's a core to a vicious Orzhov aggro deck here. All the DT, FS, and lifelink really screws up other aggro. Auras are weak against high-removal control though. Someone might be able to forego all the enchants bar W Cartouche though (for the FS) and wreck people.
Author:  GodOfAtheism [ Fri May 12, 2017 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Orzhov Trials
Did -2 B Cartouche, - Bontu, added 3 Start/Finish. Surprise Oketra blocks are lulzy.
Author:  Haven_pt [ Fri May 12, 2017 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Orzhov Trials
Aetherstorm Roc could have a home here to generate tons of energy for the Poisoners and perhaps add in some Siphoners.
Siphoners are removal magnets, but menace + first strike from a Cartouche can be brutal and aggro can always use some extra draw...
Some to go with Sram, he just loves them auras...
If you go the energy route... Other considerations would be Aethersphere Harvester and Maybe even Gonti's Machinations.
Author:  GodOfAtheism [ Fri May 12, 2017 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Orzhov Trials
I actually considered the Roc. Shot it down for want of more stuff under 4 mana. It might be a build I try since the current one lost to a UG ramp deck - mostly due to flooding, but still a loss I shouldn't have had. The draw I had couldn't keep up with the Wurms and I couldn't attack with Ormendahl (who got bounced twice anyhow.) My only worry about Siphoners is they're tiny. Throwing Destiny on one would be funny; 6/5 Flying, FS, Menace.

Kind of hoping someone tries some builds based close to this and plays five games or so.
Author:  Haven_pt [ Thu May 18, 2017 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Orzhov Trials
I've made some adjustments to this list, but its pretty close to what I've been testing on the ladder and I can say it has potential. Control has been the hardest match-up, but its fast enough to kill T5 (did it at least once), so any deck with a slow draw and no sweeper is in trouble.

Orzhov Tokens Aggro
Creature(16)
3 x Sacred Cat
1 x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
2 x Dread Wanderer
2 x Scrapheap Scrounger
2 x Hanweir Militia Captain
2 x Sram, Senior Edificer
1 x Yahenni, Undying Partisan
2 x Weaponcraft Enthusiast
1 x Oketra the True

Instant(4)
2 x Fatal Push
2 x Anguished Unmaking

Split(2)
2 x Never

Enchantment(10)
2 x Trial of Ambition
2 x Hidden Stockpile
1 x Trial of Solidarity
1 x Angelic Destiny
4 x Cartouche of Solidarity

Planeswalker(1)
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

Artifact(5)
2 x Smuggler's Copter
2 x Aethersphere Harvester
1 x Oketra's Monument

Land(22)
5 x Plains
2 x Shambling Vent
5 x Swamp
2 x Isolated Chapel
2 x Forsaken Sanctuary
2 x Westvale Abbey
4 x Evolving Wilds

Sideboard(14)
1 x Dead Weight
1 x Fatal Push
2 x Fragmentize
2 x Selfless Spirit
1 x Declaration in Stone
2 x Angelic Purge
1 x Start
2 x Anointed Procession
2 x Dusk


Sideboard is mostly cards that didn't make the cut or considerations. The Helper wouldn't let me put all 15 cards in the sideboard for some reason. Another consideration that has actually been good is ironclad slayer, returning cartouches is extra value.

To view this deck go to: https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... d1e466419a

Created using Magic Duels Helper: http://www.magicduelshelper.com
Author:  GodOfAtheism [ Thu May 18, 2017 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Orzhov Trials
I'll give your version a spin when I have a relevant quest. Been playing Plague Inc Evolved.

ETA: Played 5 games with this and lost 4. The first game was great, I completely steamrolled the guy. The next four games (Abzan Trials deck - 83 cards, Mono-G ramp, W/G Humans - 70 cards, and Mono-W enchants) I lost. Everything but the mono-G ran and drew Angelic Destiny, which I only saw in the first two games (the latter of which was a Yahenni wearing it who got Cast Out.) I kept hoping to draw removal but it didn't happen, or it would be Push against 5+ CMC stuff. Sram never did anything but sit there and suck. I think he at least should be Ayli - the Deathtouch is a lot more relevant. Also, strangely, I kept being weak against fliers despite having roflcopters, Harvesters, and Destiny. I'm sure at least one of those games was a bad draw (the second I drew 13 land in 25 cards, slightly more than I should have), but overall I kept not being able to do enough about my opponent's side of the board.

Aside from the Ayli swap, I'm not sure where to go. It looks and feels like it SHOULD be working, especially if you get Monument or Oketra (I never did see her, BTW), and that the removal package SHOULD be enough. I dunno, ask Yumi, I have crap draw luck. If it's working for you, great. I got the "cast 15 U or B spells in ranked" quest, so I've probably got 2 or so more games to play with this until I finish that. If I have an upturn in luck, I'll report back.

Also ETA: Lost to 80 card all-but-G Superfriends deck with Ob Nox, Chandra Flamecaller, Saheeli, Gideon, and Sorin in top 20 cards. Languish too. Nothing I played survived a turn. Great times, but I think my version would have been just as screwed. I did, however, beat an Azorius control deck piloted by a guy who kept casting Aether Tradewinds as a Sorcery, was mana screwed, and kept returning land to his hand. So there's that.
Author:  Haven_pt [ Fri May 19, 2017 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Orzhov Trials
My experience with the deck was about 50-50. When it won it was total anihilation, when it lost... Geez.

I'm thinking about dithching black and going boros with valor in Akros. I got wrecked by one of those and it looked like its a nice place for token spamming...
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