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[AKH] Esper Control
http://862838.jrbdt8wd.asia/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=18534		 Page 1 of 16
Author:  zzmorg82 [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  [AKH] Esper Control
Decided to make this a new thread since Gemeni changed his thread title to control.

Early Draft:

Spoiler


Version without Telling Time(V.1):

Spoiler
Author:  divinevert [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [BREWING][AHK] Esper Control
-1 never
+1 cast out

Other changes
Author:  divinevert [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [BREWING][AHK] Esper Control
I feel Telling Times time is up
Author:  WoodlandWanderer [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [BREWING][AHK] Esper Control
telling time is trash. it's a waste of 2 mana.
Author:  zzmorg82 [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [BREWING][AHK] Esper Control
divinevert wrote:
I feel Telling Times time is up


I thought about that too, but at the same time TT is what allows us to get through card selection on T2, especially if we keep 2 landers.

Needs testing. Image
Author:  divinevert [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [BREWING][AHK] Esper Control
WoodlandWanderer wrote:
telling time is trash. it's a waste of 2 mana.

This for sure feels like an overstatement.

I just think Pull and Censor may squeeze it out
Author:  divinevert [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [BREWING][AHK] Esper Control
Scarab feast seems seems unnecessary until a big GY deck comes along.
Author:  WoodlandWanderer [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [BREWING][AHK] Esper Control
for a 26 land deck i don't think i'd keep 2 lander or needing a turn 2 filter most of the time. it's just like 2 mana cycle which is worse than scarab feast, since feast only wastes 1 mana. They both should go out.
Author:  divinevert [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [BREWING][AHK] Esper Control
WoodlandWanderer wrote:
for a 26 land deck i don't think i'd keep 2 lander or needing a turn 2 filter most of the time. it's just like 2 mana cycle which is worse than scarab feast, since feast only wastes 1 mana. They both should go out.


It digs three deep, which is important for a counter deck. It only replaced itself, but it is added selection. Much better than generic cycling.
Author:  WoodlandWanderer [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [BREWING][AHK] Esper Control
i think i like that 1 copy pull from tomorrow. that card is overrated. if i expect the meta to be all control i may play one copy. i would feel sad to see it anytime in my opening hand.
Author:  divinevert [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [BREWING][AHK] Esper Control
I'd rather see Confirm Suspiciobs
Author:  WoodlandWanderer [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [BREWING][AHK] Esper Control
absolutely. unless the deck has ramp it's strictly worse than confirm suspicions
Author:  zzmorg82 [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [BREWING][AHK] Esper Control
If I were to cut the TTs, I'd probably do:

+1 Censor
+1 Confirm
+1 Blessed Alliance

I'm also spectical on the new Gideon; need to test him out as well. Image
Author:  WoodlandWanderer [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [BREWING][AHK] Esper Control
+ censor - brilliant.
+ blessed - good.
+ confirm - not so good.

probably can use some bounce, or extra removal. if you can't get murder or grasp in, at least get skywhalers shot?
Author:  divinevert [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [BREWING][AHK] Esper Control
Confirm as a 2-of is a must.
Author:  Black Barney [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [BREWING][AHK] Esper Control
The other day in a booster draft I used a Skywhalers Shot to kill a whale.

#drippingwiththeme
Author:  BounceBurnBuff [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [BREWING][AKH] Esper Control
Dropping Telling Time feels bad to me, that early selection has saved my bacon too much.
Author:  Modulo [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [BREWING][AKH] Esper Control
TBH I'm on the fence between Telling Time and Censor.

Pro Telling Time:
-Works better with flashbacks like Gearhulk
-Card selection > Cycling

Pro Censor:
-Potentially gives us +3 counterspells (never a bad thing)
Additional early answer to problematic t2/t3 plays.

I was hoping to include both, but that just seems illusory.
Linda feel like Telling Time will be better in builds with Commit, and Censor will be better in builds without. Seeing how I'm high on Commit, I think I prefer Telling Time; I will have to try both routes though.
Author:  BounceBurnBuff [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [BREWING][AKH] Esper Control
Here's where I would sit atm. As powerful as both Gideons would be, I'm still not big on the cost. More so now that Cast Out exists and is splashable for a single plains. I'm still big on Telling Time, but I see the benefits of Censor, so I'll cut 3 other 3cmc counters to fit both in. I don't think the White in this deck really needs to go much deeper.

3 x Fatal Push
2 x Blessed Alliance
3 x Censor
3 x Telling Time
3 x Grasp of Darkness
2 x Scatter to the Winds
1 x Never // Return
2 x Anguished Unmaking
2 x Cast Out
3 x Glimmer of Genius
2 x Languish
2 x Confirm Suspicions
1 x Pull from Tomorrow

1 x Disciple of the Ring
1 x Torrential Gearhulk

1 x Liliana, the Last Hope
1 x Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 x Sorin, Grim Nemesis

2 x Shambling Vent
2 x Sunken Hollow
2 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Glacial Fortress
2 x Isolated Chapel
3 x Aether Hub
4 x Evolving Wilds
1 x Plains
3 x Island
5 x Swamp


EDIT: After speaking with Modulo about Grixis, I think the benefit of going for the White splash over Red in U/B Control is that the White cards I'm interested in aren't there for the early game. Harnessed Lightning and Radiant Flames help, but splashing for early cards always feels weak to me.
Author:  InFaMoUsGeMiNi [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [BREWING][AKH] Esper Control
Plenty will have much negative opinions of me for doing this but I DON'T CARE.

11 Anti-creature spells
3 Fatal Push - Mandatory.
3 Blessed Alliance - Good against Lumbering Falls, Gaea's Revenge, Blossoming Defence, Bristling Hydra, etc
3 Grasp of Darkness - Must have at least 16 sources of B to run.
2 Languish - Shreds threw Selfless Spirit and Archangel Avacyn.

11 Anti-control spells
2 Anguished Unmaking - Mandatory.
2 Never // Return - I feel like this replaces the Scatter to the Winds slot.
4 Spell Shrivel - Could also be 3 Broken + 1 Disciple, but I feel that exile and ease of cast is important.
3 Cast Out - Could compete over the 4 drop spot with Glimmer of Genius.

Tech
3 Censor - Feels like a solid option on ladder but maybe not for a control fest on NGA. Filling in the slot for 3 Telling Time?
2 Confirm Suspicions & 1 Torrential Gearhulk

Draw
2 Pull from Tomorrow - I could see this invalidating all other draw spells in a control deck.

Finishers
1 Gideon of the Trials - I will be trying this guy out instead of Disciple of the Ring.
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets - Its either this guy or Disciple of the Ring

26 Lands

My other test verison without Cast Out & Censor

Censor & Cast Out could replace the Telling Time & Glimmer of Genius. Testing will have to clear this up.
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