No Goblins Allowed :: [BREWING] Rakdos Hellbent

Im thinking about trying a mono red version with that new loot artifact.

I'd prob ditch Grim Strider and Bone Picker for Alms of the Vein. Currently a lot of discard outlets without much madness profit. Think 7 4 drops is too many for Hellbent. Sure you might drop bone picker for 1, but it's conditional and I think you wanna just prioritize hard and fast while not relying on opp doing things to turn it's cheap cost on.

I'd add flameblade adept aswell, especially if you've got cycling synergy.

The Secret of TIMH wrote:

Pretty much my thoughts, exactly. 3 Damage for 1 is potent in an aggro deck and even better when you are discarding anyway to Looter Scooter or Key.

TheFlakyMage wrote:

The Secret of TIMH wrote:

Pretty much my thoughts, exactly. 3 Damage for 1 is potent in an aggro deck and even better when you are discarding anyway to Looter Scooter or Key.

I've been using Gonti's Machinations for that and it is better because it can produce energy to fuel Harvester Lathnu Hellion and Siphoners and sac at any time for free.
Alms is only better if you have Discard value built in...

@Fel. I think if you're choosing between Lupine Prototype and Key to the City then Key wins. It's a needed discard outlet, it ensures you get in for damage and provides an option for more gas later in the game; in other words it's always useful. This versus a creature that could be just relegated to crewing - you aren't always going to want to dump your load and it will just sit there which will feel awful when you're meant to be taking the initiative and pressing.

I think the Adept vs Apprentice is a closer choice; once you've played an artifact Apprentice is always a 2/3 but Menace can ensure Adept gets in. I favoured Adept for my build but I can see the merits for both.

Author:	Haven_pt [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:	[BREWING] Rakdos Hellbent
This is a brew I put together mainly to try out some new cards that may have potential. The curve is off for a hellbent deck, so I'll make some changes once I get a feeling for what works. It's almost mid-range atm, with some pretty big bombs that have the potential to be nasty and I should maybe add more Land and the ever popular (and useful) Fatal Push. Rakdos Hellbent 2.0 Creature(28) 2 x Dread Wanderer 4 x Insolent Neonate 3 x Flameblade Adept 2 x Lupine Prototype 2 x Scrapheap Scrounger 2 x Asylum Visitor 2 x Furyblade Vampire 3 x Bloodrage Brawler 1 x Olivia, Mobilized for War 2 x Bone Picker 2 x Grim Strider 2 x Bloodhall Priest 1 x Hazoret the Fervent Instant(4) 4 x Fiery Temper Artifact(4) 2 x Key to the City 2 x Smuggler's Copter Land(20) 2 x Smoldering Marsh 7 x Swamp 7 x Mountain 2 x Dragonskull Summit 2 x Cinder Barrens To view this deck go to: https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... 1fde578be8 Created using Magic Duels Helper: http://www.magicduelshelper.com If you draw the more expensive stuff too early, just ditch them and hope for the best.

Author:	The Secret of TIMH [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [BREWING] Rakdos Hellbent
I'd prob ditch Grim Strider and Bone Picker for Alms of the Vein. Currently a lot of discard outlets without much madness profit. Think 7 4 drops is too many for Hellbent. Sure you might drop bone picker for 1, but it's conditional and I think you wanna just prioritize hard and fast while not relying on opp doing things to turn it's cheap cost on. I wonder if Olivia's Dragoon is a "necessity"? There will be times you might just want to go suicide style and ditch your hand to get hellbent on command.

Author:	Haven_pt [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [BREWING] Rakdos Hellbent
Actually, Bone Picker gets the cost reduction if you kill something too. With so many Fatal pushes being played, its not gonna be hard to meet the condition, but its one of the cards I'm curious about and want to test. Grim Strider is the other, 6/6 for 4 is pretty big and the mind games you can play when its smaller... Although, at least 4 of those 4-drops aren't really 4 drops, I know the curve is off. I like to test cards before I write them off. Alms is pretty crap though... I've played it quite a bit and its just unconvincing. The lifegain is ok in a race, but it shows up when you really need removal all too often... I don't like the Dragoons either and I can't shake the feeling that just dumping your hand is always going to be a bad play. They may be a necessity in a later build, this one's for testing purpose atm.

Author:	The Secret of TIMH [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [BREWING] Rakdos Hellbent
I played a lot of rakdos suicide/hellbent before Kaladesh. Alms is perfectly fine - you're always racing because you'll fold in the mid game, and it's reach; you'll be discarding like crazy, and it's madness straight to the face. I didn't always pitch my hand to Dragoon, but it was very relevant on occasion. Flying helps too. I get wanting to play with the new cards. Nothing wrong with that. But I feel like Heir of Falkenrath is going to be better than Bone Picker in hellbent decks. You're never playing Picker T1 anyways, and Falkenrath contributes to hellbent.

Author:	Renko [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [BREWING] Rakdos Hellbent
Looks very interesting Haven. Have you considered flip Lily in the deck? Seems easy enough to flip and then she can help you get bent

No Goblins Allowed http://862838.jrbdt8wd.asia/

[BREWING] Rakdos Hellbent http://862838.jrbdt8wd.asia/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=18512	Page 1 of 3

Author:	Haven_pt [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [BREWING] Rakdos Hellbent
She could work, especially if you modify the deck for the black god. Something I'll have to test. Btw, the list in the op is missing 4 split cards: 2x Never to return 2x Cut to ribbons

Author:	Sl33pHumper [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [BREWING] Rakdos Hellbent
Im thinking about trying a mono red version with that new loot artifact.

Author:	Haven_pt [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [BREWING] Rakdos Hellbent
Sl33pHumper wrote: Im thinking about trying a mono red version with that new loot artifact. Only problem I see with it is it being legendary, so you can't stack them, but the loot trigger is for any creature and not just red. Still, taking T3 off just to cast it doesn't seem terribly awesome, but I may be wrong... Edit: I gave your idea some thought and: viewtopic.php?f=61&t=18531#p554718

Author:	callmemaggit [ Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [BREWING] Rakdos Hellbent
My version: 2 x Walking Ballista 2 x Bomat Courier 4 x Galvanic Blast 3 x Lightning Axe 2 x Scrapheap Scrounger 3 x Bloodrage Brawler 2 x Smuggler's Copter 1 x Key to the City 2 x ahn-crop crasher 3 x fiery temper 2 x unlicensed disintegration 2 x Hazoret's Monument 2 x neheb, the worthy 2 x merciless javelineer 1 x hazoret the fervent 2 x Heart-Piercer Manticore 2 x archfiend of ifnir 7 x Swamp 9 x Mountain 2 x Smoldering Marsh 2 x Dragonskull Summit 2 x Cinder Barrens 1 x Drownyard temple I dunno if the GB should be Push, btw Minotaur subtheme, 7 + 2 Lords...all of them good... when a 3/2 with haste and exert bonus at 2R is the worst of the lot, it's good news Some of the 4-5 CC cards having cycling/embalm helps with the curve, plus Monuments, plus looting...so just 23 lands

Author:	Haven_pt [ Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [BREWING] Rakdos Hellbent
Your short a few artifacts for ud to be effective, but its good removal anyway... Needs more tempers. I can't really say if Minotaur tribal is any good. The lord is nice, even without any buddies but most of the others haven't convinced me... I'd go with pushes. I'd add flameblade adept aswell, especially if you've got cycling synergy.

Author:	TheFlakyMage [ Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [BREWING] Rakdos Hellbent
The Secret of TIMH wrote: I'd prob ditch Grim Strider and Bone Picker for Alms of the Vein. Currently a lot of discard outlets without much madness profit. Think 7 4 drops is too many for Hellbent. Sure you might drop bone picker for 1, but it's conditional and I think you wanna just prioritize hard and fast while not relying on opp doing things to turn it's cheap cost on. Pretty much my thoughts, exactly. 3 Damage for 1 is potent in an aggro deck and even better when you are discarding anyway to Looter Scooter or Key.

Author:	callmemaggit [ Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [BREWING] Rakdos Hellbent
Haven_pt wrote: I'd add flameblade adept aswell, especially if you've got cycling synergy. Ruthless Sniper is tempting too...in fact, I'm thinking if a Dimir version is maybe doable 1 x Neglected Heirloom 3 x Ruthless Sniper 3 x Fatal Push 3 x Censor 2 x Scrapheap Scrounger 3 x Shadowstorm Vizier 3 x Heir of Falkenrat 2 x Smuggler's Copter 2 x Drake Haven 2 x Unburden 2 x Never // Return 2 x Curator of Mysteries 4 x Hieroglyphic illumination 2 x Elusive Tormentor 2 x Archfiend of Ifnir Does this make sense? Tho it's really more about cycling that being hellbent...

Author:	Haven_pt [ Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [BREWING] Rakdos Hellbent
TheFlakyMage wrote: The Secret of TIMH wrote: I'd prob ditch Grim Strider and Bone Picker for Alms of the Vein. Currently a lot of discard outlets without much madness profit. Think 7 4 drops is too many for Hellbent. Sure you might drop bone picker for 1, but it's conditional and I think you wanna just prioritize hard and fast while not relying on opp doing things to turn it's cheap cost on. Pretty much my thoughts, exactly. 3 Damage for 1 is potent in an aggro deck and even better when you are discarding anyway to Looter Scooter or Key. I've been using Gonti's Machinations for that and it is better because it can produce energy to fuel Harvester Lathnu Hellion and Siphoners and sac at any time for free. Alms is only better if you have Discard value built in...

Author:	TheFlakyMage [ Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [BREWING] Rakdos Hellbent
Haven_pt wrote: TheFlakyMage wrote: The Secret of TIMH wrote: I'd prob ditch Grim Strider and Bone Picker for Alms of the Vein. Currently a lot of discard outlets without much madness profit. Think 7 4 drops is too many for Hellbent. Sure you might drop bone picker for 1, but it's conditional and I think you wanna just prioritize hard and fast while not relying on opp doing things to turn it's cheap cost on. Pretty much my thoughts, exactly. 3 Damage for 1 is potent in an aggro deck and even better when you are discarding anyway to Looter Scooter or Key. I've been using Gonti's Machinations for that and it is better because it can produce energy to fuel Harvester Lathnu Hellion and Siphoners and sac at any time for free. Alms is only better if you have Discard value built in... Yeah... but we were talking about your hellbent deck, right? You've got Key to the City, Smug, Olivia, Neonates, and the 2 drop that forces a discard. Plenty of things that could def get a little value from a good madness spell. And no Siphoners, Harvesters, or Hellions. I do like Gonti's - especially in 2HG. I've been toying with a stupid combo build that uses Gonti's in a flicker shell with Rallier and Refiner for recursion and energy fuel, respectively.

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Author:	Sjokwaave [ Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [BREWING] Rakdos Hellbent
So here's where I'm at: Black as Night, Faster than a Shadow Creature(23) 2x Bomat Courier 2x Dread Wanderer 3x Flameblade Adept 2x Inventor's Apprentice 2x Scrapheap Scrounger 2x Asylum Visitor 3x Bloodrage Brawler 2x Pia Nalaar 2x Lathnu Hellion 1x Olivia, Mobilized for War 1x Bloodhall Priest 1x Hazoret the Fervent Instant(9) 2x Lightning Axe 4x Fiery Temper 3x Unlicensed Disintegration Split(1) 1x Insult // Injury Artifact(5) 2x Smuggler's Copter 1x Heart of Kiran 2x Key to the City Land(22) 2x Smoldering Marsh 8x Swamp 10x Mountain 2x Dragonskull Summit Nothing fancy. My only problem with this deck is I don't like the 3 drop options, though in this regard I think Hellion is being overlooked. I'm also with Haven on Alms; we already have reach and there is nothing I'd cut to fit it in. I'd reconsider if it could hit creatures

Author:	felbatista [ Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [BREWING] Rakdos Hellbent
I briefly mentioned this deck during our podcast, but didn't have time to show it, so here's the list. Look mum, no hands! 2x Bomat Courier 2x Dread Wanderer 3x Flameblade Adept OR Inventor's Apprentice 1x Inventor's Apprentice OR Flameblade Adept 2x Scrapheap Scrounger 2x Key to the City OR Lupine Prototype 3x Bloodrage Brawler 1x Heir of Falkenrath 2x Asylum Visitor 2x Ahn-Crop Crasher 2x Pia Nalaar 2x Neheb, the Worthy 1x Hazoret the Fervent 1x Bloodhall Priest 2x Smuggler's Copter 3x Unlicensed Disintegration 3x Lightning Axe 3x Fiery Temper 1x Insult // Injury 2x Dragonskull Summit 2x Smoldering Marsh 2x Hanweir Battlements 7x Swamp 9x Mountain Some slots I'm not 100% sure (Key x Prototype, Apprentice x Adept), but I think this deck has legs.

Author:	DJ0045 [ Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [BREWING] Rakdos Hellbent
For the record, you don't need a whole lot of minotaurs to make a (semi-tribal) deck work when most of the minotaurs are pretty damn good without any help. Nice one man!

Author:	The Secret of TIMH [ Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [BREWING] Rakdos Hellbent
The thing I need to see before I decide on my build is how quickly these lists can get hellbent. I played a Rakdos suicide deck a ton before Kaladesh, and it was one of the strongest decks I played with at the time. Olivia's Dragoon was so important to that deck because it allowed me to get hellbent on demand. This matters when you want to turn on Prototypes or Priests T3 or T4 because you're trying to end it T5. I also used to run Ghirapur Orrery that I wanted to turn on asap in games that needed it, and while I don't think I'd want to run that now, we've got things like Hazoret or Neheb (or Strider I guess, if you're into trying that) that you want to make sure they can do The Lord's Work when they drop. You'll get those draws where you start with 3 lands and think you're fine but then start flooding out, not being able to play more than 1 per turn and keeping you off hellbent. An unconditional discard outlet is very nice then. I can't help feeling that a deck looking to get hellbent wants something like that. Attacking for 2 in the air makes a difference too. Sure we have Copters and Harvesters around that didn't exist when I was doing it - but really, what opponent isn't going to be attacking with them thinking they can race your ass instead of leaving them back to block? At least until this deck proves to everyone on the ladder that it races harder. No, you won't want to pitch a bunch of cards on the spot every game. You'll have draws where you curve out perfectly and won't need more discard than the various 1-off options. But you'll also have games where you don't and need to turn your **** on before your opp can stabilize and put the game out of your aggressive reach. So the questions I want answered once we can play with the new stuff are: 1) how reliably can we get hellbent? And 2) how much do some of the new cards add to the strategy's ability to survive and compete if the game starts going longer than T5 if not getting hellbent?

Author:	Sjokwaave [ Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [BREWING] Rakdos Hellbent
@Fel. I think if you're choosing between Lupine Prototype and Key to the City then Key wins. It's a needed discard outlet, it ensures you get in for damage and provides an option for more gas later in the game; in other words it's always useful. This versus a creature that could be just relegated to crewing - you aren't always going to want to dump your load and it will just sit there which will feel awful when you're meant to be taking the initiative and pressing. I think the Adept vs Apprentice is a closer choice; once you've played an artifact Apprentice is always a 2/3 but Menace can ensure Adept gets in. I favoured Adept for my build but I can see the merits for both.

Author:	felbatista [ Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [BREWING] Rakdos Hellbent
Sjokwaave wrote: @Fel. I think if you're choosing between Lupine Prototype and Key to the City then Key wins. It's a needed discard outlet, it ensures you get in for damage and provides an option for more gas later in the game; in other words it's always useful. This versus a creature that could be just relegated to crewing - you aren't always going to want to dump your load and it will just sit there which will feel awful when you're meant to be taking the initiative and pressing. I think the Adept vs Apprentice is a closer choice; once you've played an artifact Apprentice is always a 2/3 but Menace can ensure Adept gets in. I favoured Adept for my build but I can see the merits for both. Yeah, my gut feeling is that Key is the better option. I just want to keep Prototype in mind in case I need to up my creature count a bit without weakening my UDs.