No Goblins Allowed :: [AKH] Jeskai Control

Kefnet is up in the air for me as well. What I like about him is that he can function as a carddraw machine, provides an additional Nahiri target

Regarding Commit, I'm not after the bounce side per-se, but I do like the use of responding to Evolving Wilds.

BounceBurnBuff wrote:

Regarding Commit, I'm not after the bounce side per-se, but I do like the use of responding to Evolving Wilds.

Not even sure whether I'd Commit before of after Wilds resolves. If I Commit after, I have information. If I Commit before, the opponent probably won't draw the card for a while.

Modulo wrote:

BounceBurnBuff wrote:

Regarding Commit, I'm not after the bounce side per-se, but I do like the use of responding to Evolving Wilds.

Not even sure whether I'd Commit before of after Wilds resolves. If I Commit after, I have information. If I Commit before, the opponent probably won't draw the card for a while.

If its a PW or other mythic, before. If its something like Tutelage at uncommon, probably after.

I think it would be cool for players like modulo, Vert and me, and the like to give a commentary track to go with this type of content, ideally concurrently.
It's not something that's gonna go viral, but it would be Fun for the 10 + People that frequent these boards, and Care about Control. It could be a series, we build decks, he plays em, and we Muse about his decisions, or where the deck falls flat, and he would be the valiant Scotsman taking one for the team (proven to be a succesful formula ).

What say you ? Could be fun ! :thumbsup:

Author:	Modulo [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:40 am ]
Post subject:	[AKH] Jeskai Control
I like where Azorius Control is headed, but that deck has a serious early-game weakness. Maybe running Red solves this? Creatures+Planeswalkers (6) 1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy 1 x Gideon of the Trials 1 x Nahiri, the Harbinger 1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar 1 x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets 1 x Torrential Gearhulk Instants and Sorceries (28) 3 x Blessed Alliance 3 x Telling Time 3 x Harnessed Lightning 2 x Scatter to the Winds 4 x Spell Shrivel 2 x Radiant Flames 3 x Cast Out 2 x Commit//Memory 3 x Glimmer of Genius 2 x Confirm Suspicions 1 x Pull from Tomorrow Lands (26): 3 x Plains 3 x Island 1 x Mountain All rare Duals 3 x Aether Hub 4 x Evolving Wilds Could see Pull from Tomorrow replace Baby Jace or Kefnet. EDIT: It happened: +2 Pull, -1 Glimmer, -1 Kefnet. EDIT2: Rolling back on Glimmer and Pull; unsure about Kefnet.

Author:	BounceBurnBuff [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [AKH] Jeskai Control
We're going to go round in circles about this archetype lol. I don't see the point in running 2x Commit. I'd duck a copy for 1x Pull. I'd also ditch baby Jace and Kefnet for 2x Glyph Keeper. Baby Jace has to worry about cheap removal AND 5 copies of brand new PW removal, and he doesn't have synergy with counter spells or Cast Out. Kefnet is still up in the air for me. Prove me wrong with him pls, I want to like him. Jeskai adding Radiant Flames and Harnessed Lightning is a huge buff though, but also Nahiri works well with the Glyph Keepers for 5 to the dome hasted.

Author:	Modulo [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [AKH] Jeskai Control
I think Commit is an easy 2-of and we would have to debate whether to add a third copy if we had access to it. You do know the difference between, say, Clutch of Currents and Roil Spout. Now imagine Unsubstantiate, Disperse and Reflector Mage having a baby that gets a similar upgrade. That's Commit for you. And while we're at it, let's throw a Wheel effect on the aftermath because the card was not busted enough yet. Kefnet is up in the air for me as well. What I like about him is that he can function as a carddraw machine, provides an additional Nahiri target and can save your manlands from removal spells super-lategame. Pull from Tomorrow and Glyph Keeper are options we have to consider over him though; as is Disciple of the Ring. Not sure about baby Jace either, but he's great if he goes unanswered and provides an amazing target for Nahiri's ultimate if the Hulk is down already.

Author:	BounceBurnBuff [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [AKH] Jeskai Control
Modulo wrote: Kefnet is up in the air for me as well. What I like about him is that he can function as a carddraw machine, provides an additional Nahiri target Kefnet having haste matters little if you don't have 7 cards in hand

Author:	Modulo [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [AKH] Jeskai Control
5 cards in hand and 4 mana should do the trick But yeah, Kef is the third choice in Nahiri targets, and maybe Disciple would be better in his slot. Thing is, Kef costs 3 mana whereas other wincons cost 5... I'll try him, and if he ends up not doing enough he's out. Simple as that.

No Goblins Allowed http://862838.jrbdt8wd.asia/

[AKH] Jeskai Control http://862838.jrbdt8wd.asia/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=18497	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Modulo [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [AKH] Jeskai Control
BounceBurnBuff wrote: Regarding Commit, I'm not after the bounce side per-se, but I do like the use of responding to Evolving Wilds. Not even sure whether I'd Commit before of after Wilds resolves. If I Commit after, I have information. If I Commit before, the opponent probably won't draw the card for a while.

Author:	BounceBurnBuff [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [AKH] Jeskai Control
Modulo wrote: BounceBurnBuff wrote: Regarding Commit, I'm not after the bounce side per-se, but I do like the use of responding to Evolving Wilds. Not even sure whether I'd Commit before of after Wilds resolves. If I Commit after, I have information. If I Commit before, the opponent probably won't draw the card for a while. If its a PW or other mythic, before. If its something like Tutelage at uncommon, probably after.

Author:	Modulo [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [AKH] Jeskai Control
BounceBurnBuff wrote: Modulo wrote: BounceBurnBuff wrote: Regarding Commit, I'm not after the bounce side per-se, but I do like the use of responding to Evolving Wilds. Not even sure whether I'd Commit before of after Wilds resolves. If I Commit after, I have information. If I Commit before, the opponent probably won't draw the card for a while. If its a PW or other mythic, before. If its something like Tutelage at uncommon, probably after. I doubt it's that easy. Before playing with it, I'd be more in line with "If I can answer it in the near future, before. If I can't, after". TBH I don't think it'll come up on the control deck's side often as Wilds will generally be cracked in the opposing end step.

Author:	Modulo [ Mon May 01, 2017 8:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [AKH] Jeskai Control
So yeah. Jeskai Control was indeed the list I took for a spin very early - only to find it getting beat up badly. The manabase was too slow, the removal suite was off, the curve seemed too high. Come Saturday evening, where I had a conversation with Rabble about some of Control's new tools. That conversation led me towards the following list. 80% of the credit for it goes to Rabble, as I used many of his splits for slots in the deck. Creatures (4): 1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy 1 x Kefnet, the Mindful 1 x Disciple of the Ring 1 x Torrential Gearhulk Planeswalkers (2): 1 x Nahiri, the Harbinger 1 x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets Instants (21): 2 x Magma Spray 2 x Blessed Alliance 3 x Censor 3 x Harnessed Lightning 2 x Scatter to the Winds 4 x Spell Shrivel 2 x Glimmer of Genius 1 x Confirm Suspicions 2 x Pull from Tomorrow Sorceries (4): 2 x Declaration in Stone 2 x Radiant Flames Enchantments (3): 3 x Cast Out Lands (26): 2 x Plains 5 x Island 2 x Mountain 2 x Wandering Fumarole 2 x Praerie Stream 2 x Glacial Fortress 2 x Clifftop Retreat 2 x Sulfur Falls 3 x Aether Hub 4 x Evolving Wilds Central idea of the deck: Using blue wincons allows cutting wincons in other colours (notably the Gideons). This makes our manabase requireents easier to meet and allows us to quicken the manabase cutting some manlands. I don't think the list is 100% fine-tuned, but this should be used as a starting point to go from.

Author:	BounceBurnBuff [ Mon May 01, 2017 8:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [AKH] Jeskai Control
Great minds, I too was running this through the rounds today. Gideon of the Trials, also to me, just sat in hand or wouldn't save me even if I'd played him. The mana also tended to be an issue. How has Nahiri been?

Author:	Modulo [ Mon May 01, 2017 9:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [AKH] Jeskai Control
She has been okay; main argument in her favor is that she's relatively easy to cast and her modes help control a lot (even her +2). You could possibly cut her if you really wanted, but she is still powerful.

Author:	BounceBurnBuff [ Mon May 01, 2017 9:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [AKH] Jeskai Control
The deck for me is 7-4 atm. Loses were: 2x Mill. First one was annoying and I managed to counter a T3 Tutelage with Censor, followed by a T5 with Shrivel. Land screw my end led to a 10 minute game when they resolved Tutelage 3 and chucked 2 of my cast outs it the yard in one sitting. Lame. Game 2 was the standard T3 Tutelage afair with no Censor to speak of. Double lame. 1x RDW. Mulligan to 6 with 4 lands, Confirm and Cast Out. Drew 3x lands and Jace before I died. 1x G/W Ulvenwald Mysteries. Epic 40 minute game, came down to 9 cards in library and my opponent 12. Big Chandra stalled through the tokens, Blessed Alliance to kill both Ormendahls, lost because I only had lands/counters left and no way to deal damage. I lie, it was a miserable gruelling game. Surprised you don't have Big Chandra in the list TBH, she's one of the reasons to go Jeskai/Grixis IMO.

Author:	Goblin Rabblemaster [ Mon May 01, 2017 10:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [AKH] Jeskai Control
Couple of thoughts: _ Deck needs to run commit at least as a 1 off. First, commit is a good card. Memory is a very powerful tool because the deck risks to get milled / draw empty by itself in hard fought games (control mirrors). One shrivel can probably be cut for it. I wouldn't be shy to run another over big jace, but that's more a preference thing, and may not be the right decision. Running more commit makes Gearhulk better, remember you can just flash back commit over memory if you prefer. _ Nahiri is perfect in this deck. She exiles opposing nasties, she provides great filtering, she's hard to kill, AND she ties all your wincons together. I'd run more if I could, not cut her. She, the easy to cast harnessed lightning, and radiant flames are the biggest pulls to play this over esper. _ Big chandra would be another thing to play over big jace if you feel so inclined, she's such a quick clock once you have the game under control; Jace is more elegant however, you get that emblem off and you can kill em with fumaroles

Author:	BounceBurnBuff [ Mon May 01, 2017 11:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [AKH] Jeskai Control
Agree on Commit, love that card. Switched for a Shrivel, I'll try this version out on stream for a bit.

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Author:	TainteD [ Mon May 01, 2017 11:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: [AKH] Jeskai Control
Edit: Updated List My current list, I tried a 2/2 split between magma spray and impulse for a bit but found spray too narrow with all the 3+ toughness creatures around (great sideboard card though). Only slight issue with the deck is being a bit heavy at the 4 mana spot, perhaps you could shave 1 glimmer but then the hubs/harnessed get worse. As for the mana, I needed to cut 2 needle spires as the number of tapped lands was screwing me over, at the same time i wanted enough red sources because sometimes you want to cast 2 red spells in same turn. Jeskai Control Creature(3) 1 x Kefnet the Mindful 1 x Disciple of the Ring 1 x Torrential Gearhulk Instant(24) 3 x Fiery Impulse 2 x Blessed Alliance 3 x Censor 2 x Pull From Tomorrow 1 x Essence Scatter 3 x Harnessed Lightning 1 x Broken Concentration 2 x Scatter to the Winds 2 x Spell Shrivel 1 x Kozilek's Return 3 x Glimmer of Genius 1 x Confirm Suspicions Sorcery(1) 1 x Radiant Flames Enchantment(3) 3 x Cast Out Planeswalker(3) 1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar 1 x Nahiri, the Harbinger 1 x Chandra, Flamecaller Land(26) 2 x Plains 2 x Prairie Stream 2 x Wandering Fumarole 4 x Island 3 x Mountain 2 x Glacial Fortress 2 x Sulfur Falls 2 x Clifftop Retreat 3 x Aether Hub 4 x Evolving Wilds 19 Blue Sources 16 Red Sources 15 White Sources

Author:	BounceBurnBuff [ Mon May 01, 2017 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [AKH] Jeskai Control
@Modulo/Rabble: Managed to get 5 games on the stream before Stainless decided to be Stainless, food's better anyways. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/139377366 Pull is showing me more and more how much valuable stuff ends up in the bottom 20 lol. Feel free to point out the misplays (free one, playing the Disciple vs Rakdos instead of Glimmer T5)

Author:	zzmorg82 [ Mon May 01, 2017 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [AKH] Jeskai Control
Get Barney to participate and I'll watch.

Author:	divinevert [ Mon May 01, 2017 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: [AKH] Jeskai Control
Goblin Rabblemaster wrote: I think it would be cool for players like modulo, Vert and me, and the like to give a commentary track to go with this type of content, ideally concurrently. It's not something that's gonna go viral, but it would be Fun for the 10 + People that frequent these boards, and Care about Control. It could be a series, we build decks, he plays em, and we Muse about his decisions, or where the deck falls flat, and he would be the valiant Scotsman taking one for the team (proven to be a succesful formula ). What say you ? Could be fun ! So like a diss track?