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Who controls the creature?
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Author:  Aaarrrgh [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:34 am ]
Post subject:  Who controls the creature?

If I have put Control Magic on an opponent's creature, and then choose that creature as one of my targets for Puca's Mischief, what happens? Can I exchange control of the creature? Do I get it back again?

Author:  Argus Panoptes [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who controls the creature?

Aaarrrgh wrote:
If I have put Control Magic on an opponent's creature, and then choose that creature as one of my targets for Puca's Mischief, what happens?

Quote:
701.10b When control of two permanents is exchanged, if those permanents are controlled by
different players, each of those players simultaneously gains control of the permanent that was
controlled by the other player. If, on the other hand, those permanents are controlled by the
same player, the exchange effect does nothing.

613.1. The values of an object’s characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object. For a
card, that means the values of the characteristics printed on that card. For a token or a copy of a
spell or card, that means the values of the characteristics defined by the effect that created it. Then
all applicable continuous effects are applied in a series of layers in the following order:

613.1b Layer 2: Control-changing effects are applied.

613.6. Within a layer or sublayer, determining which order effects are applied in is usually done using a
timestamp system. An effect with an earlier timestamp is applied before an effect with a later
timestamp.

613.6b A continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability receives a timestamp at
the time it’s created.

613.6d An Aura, Equipment, or Fortification receives a new timestamp at the time it becomes
attached to an object or player.

Once the Puca's Mischief's ability resolves, the relevant information about its control is as followed, with the later items overriding earlier ones:

  • The creature entered the battlefield under your opponent's control.
  • Your Control Magic is on the creature, giving you control.
  • The effect of Puca's Mischief's ability gives control to your opponent.

Aaarrrgh wrote:
Can I exchange control of the creature?

It's a nonland permanent, you controlled it while the ability of Puca's Mischief was on the stack, it could absolutely be the "target nonland permanent you control".

Aaarrrgh wrote:
Do I get it back again?
If the Control Magic gets a new timestamp somehow, it will move to the end of that list. In a multiplayer game, if you gave control to an opponent other than the original controller, the departure of the new controller will end the effect of Puca's Mischief. And of course, new control entries can be added to the end of that list (such as if you later choose it as a "target nonland permanent an opponent controls with an equal or lesser converted mana cost"). Otherwise, no.
Quote:
611.2a A continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability lasts as long as stated by
the spell or ability creating it (such as “until end of turn”). If no duration is stated, it lasts until
the end of the game.

Author:  Aaarrrgh [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who controls the creature?

Ok, so the sites operates on the same layer as the ability. To bad, I thought I had a great idea.

Follow up question, then. What would happen if I someone else control of the Aura? Would they get the creature? And this goes both before and after I've traded away the creature.

Author:  Argus Panoptes [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who controls the creature?

Aaarrrgh wrote:
Follow up question, then. What would happen if I someone else control of the Aura? Would they get the creature? And this goes both before and after I've traded away the creature.
They will be the "you" in Control Magic's "You control enchanted creature." The sequence and timestamps will still work the same way.
Quote:
109.5. The words “you” and “your” on an object refer to the object’s controller, its would-be controller
(if a player is attempting to play, cast, or activate it), or its owner (if it has no controller). For a
static ability, this is the current controller of the object it’s on.
For an activated ability, this is the
player who activated the ability. For a triggered ability, this is the controller of the object when the
ability triggered, unless it’s a delayed triggered ability. To determine the controller of a delayed
triggered ability, see rules 603.7d–f.


A change of control won't give the Aura a new timestamp. Here is a list of things that determine the timestamp, with the ones typically relevant to Control Magic in red.
Quote:
613.6. Within a layer or sublayer, determining which order effects are applied in is usually done using a
timestamp system. An effect with an earlier timestamp is applied before an effect with a later
timestamp.
613.6a A continuous effect generated by a static ability has the same timestamp as the object the
static ability is on, or the timestamp of the effect that created the ability, whichever is later.

613.6b A continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability receives a timestamp at
the time it’s created.
613.6c An object receives a timestamp at the time it enters a zone.
613.6d An Aura, Equipment, or Fortification receives a new timestamp at the time it becomes
attached to an object or player.

613.6e A permanent receives a new timestamp at the time it turns face up or face down.
613.6f A double-faced permanent receives a new timestamp at the time it transforms.
613.6g A face-up plane card, phenomenon card, or scheme card receives a timestamp at the time
it’s turned face up.
613.6h A face-up vanguard card receives a timestamp at the beginning of the game.
613.6i A conspiracy card receives a timestamp at the beginning of the game. If it’s face down, it
receives a new timestamp at the time it turns face up.
613.6j If two or more objects would receive a timestamp simultaneously, such as by entering a zone
simultaneously or becoming attached simultaneously, the active player determines their relative
timestamp order at that time.

Author:  Huey Nomure [ Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who controls the creature?

So if a player steals a creature with Control Magic then returns it through Puca's Mischief, the Aura will remain in their control while the creature is controlled by their opponent. Does this mean the player can later exchange control of Aura and enchanted creature, effectively getting the creature back without giving anything useful back?

(Btw, Puca's Mischief sounds interesting in combination with most Auras, since their control doesn't affect their effect)

Author:  Argus Panoptes [ Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who controls the creature?

So if a player steals a creature with Control Magic then returns it through Puca's Mischief, the Aura will remain in their control while the creature is controlled by their opponent. Does this mean the player can later exchange control of Aura and enchanted creature, effectively getting the creature back without giving anything useful back?

For Puca's Mischief to do that particular exchange, the creature's converted mana cost would have to be equal to or less than 4. But yes that would work, because the timestamp sequence would still be the same.

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