No Goblins Allowed :: How to Resolve Thieves Auction with Grip of Chaos and Confusion in the Ranks

The exiled cards are...
A bunch of lands that won't be touched by Confusion so who cares
Grip of Chaos
Confusion in the Ranks
Craw Wurm
Grizzly Bears
Sol Ring
Mana Crypt
Propaganda
Palinchron
Thran Dynamo
Necropotence
Crypt Ghast
Serra Angel
Angelic Destiny
Sun Droplet

Player 1: Selects Grip of Chaos
Player 2: Selects Palinchron
Player 3: Selects Necropotence
Player 4: Selects Serra Angel
Player 1: Selects Confusion in the Ranks
Player 2: Selects Thran Dynamo
Player 3: Selects Propaganda
Player 4: Selects Sol Ring
Player 1: Selects Mana Crypt
Player 2: Selects Angelic Destiny
Player 3: Selects Crypt Chast
Player 4: Selects Craw Wurm
Player 1: Selects Sun Droplet
Player 2: Selects Grizzly Bears
All players start grabbing lands.

What permanents entering the battlefield generate swap triggers?
What are the legal targets (To be randomized between) for those triggers?
Where does Angelic Destiny get stuck and when is it decided?
Anything else fun?

303.4f If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a player’s control by any means other than by
resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesn’t specify the object
or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters the
battlefield. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura’s enchant
ability and any other applicable effects.

Player 4's Confusion triggers associated with Serra Angel and Craw Wurm can each be redirected to: Palinchron, Crypt Ghast, Grizzly Bears
Player 4's Confusion trigger associated with Sol Ring can be redirected to: Thran Dynamo, Mana Crypt, Sun Droplet
Player 3's Confusion trigger associated with Crypt Ghast can be redirected to: Palinchron, Craw Wurm, Grizzly Bears, Serra Angel
Player 3's Confusion triggers associated with Propaganda and Necropotence can each be redirected to: Grip of Chaos, Confusion in the Ranks, Angelic Destiny
Player 2's Confusion triggers associated with Palinchron and Grizzly Bears can each be redirected to: Crypt Ghast, Craw Wurm, Serra Angel
Player 2's Confusion trigger associated with Thran Dynamo can be redirected to: Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Sun Droplet
Player 2's Confusion trigger associated with Angelic Destiny can be redirected to: Grip of Chaos, Confusion in the Ranks, Propaganda, Necropotence
Player 1's Confusion triggers associated with Sun Droplet and Mana Crypt can each be redirected to: Sol Ring, Thran Dynamo
Player 1's Confusion triggers associated with Grip of Chaos and Confusion in the Ranks can each be redirected to: Necropotence, Propaganda, Angelic Destiny

Player 4's Sol Ring trigger is guaranteed to resolve, as well as at least one of his/her creature triggers. One of Player 3's enchantment triggers is guaranteed to resolve.

Author:	Tevish Szat [ Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:36 am ]
Post subject:	How to Resolve Thieves Auction with Grip of Chaos and Confusion in the Ranks
Thieves' Auction is cast with Grip of Chaos, Confusion in the Ranks and some other permanents on the battlefield -- how will the mess be resolved? Does everything enter at once, or is the order in which the cards are 'drafted' matter? Specific example Spoiler The exiled cards are... A bunch of lands that won't be touched by Confusion so who cares Grip of Chaos Confusion in the Ranks Craw Wurm Grizzly Bears Sol Ring Mana Crypt Propaganda Palinchron Thran Dynamo Necropotence Crypt Ghast Serra Angel Angelic Destiny Sun Droplet Player 1: Selects Grip of Chaos Player 2: Selects Palinchron Player 3: Selects Necropotence Player 4: Selects Serra Angel Player 1: Selects Confusion in the Ranks Player 2: Selects Thran Dynamo Player 3: Selects Propaganda Player 4: Selects Sol Ring Player 1: Selects Mana Crypt Player 2: Selects Angelic Destiny Player 3: Selects Crypt Chast Player 4: Selects Craw Wurm Player 1: Selects Sun Droplet Player 2: Selects Grizzly Bears All players start grabbing lands. What permanents entering the battlefield generate swap triggers? What are the legal targets (To be randomized between) for those triggers? Where does Angelic Destiny get stuck and when is it decided? Anything else fun?

Author:	Edacade [ Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How to Resolve Thieves Auction with Grip of Chaos and Confusion in the Ranks
Grip of Chaos is irrelevant to the Auction, so I can only assume you're asking how it interacts with Confusion in the Ranks. The answer to which is that, when the Grip ability associated with each Confusion trigger resolves, the target will be chosen at random from among all viable choices. In the specific example given, Player 1 will choose targets for Confusion in the Ranks first, followed by Player 2 (who also chooses where Palinchron's trigger is stacked in rgeards to his/her Confusion triggers), then 3, then 4. Then Grip will trigger and Player 1 will choose the order in which his Confusion triggers have their targets rechosen, followed by Player 2, then 3, then 4. Player 4's Grip triggers will resolve first, followed by Player 3's, then 2's, then 1's (assuming everybody passes priority). This is when the chaos really starts: Player 4's top-most Confusion in the Ranks trigger will resolve, targeting whatever was chosen at random by the Grip. With exception to lands, everything you listed will have triggered Confusion in the Ranks. So, Player 4 has two creatures and an artifact to exchange. Those actions will be done. If any of those swaps were targeted by another Confusion trigger controlled by a player other than whoever gains control of it, when that trigger resolves another swap will be made (so if from Player 4's triggers Player 3 gains control of a creature he or she had to target, the swap will not be made when Player 3's trigger resolves). Now, Palinchron introduces an interesting twist to the scenario. Because its trigger doesn't target. So Player 2 could potentially have enough mana to bounce it if, AND ONLY IF, Palinchron does not get swapped out to any other player (or somehow makes it back to Player 2) before his/her Confusion triggers start resolving. Or s/he could untap enough lands of whoever ends up controlling Palinchron so they can bounce it. But in the scenario described, I don't think that would consistently happen. In regards to Angelic Destiny, I believe that Player 2 will have a choice of Palinchron and Serra Angel to put it onto. I'm double checking the Comp Rules right now to see. Although I predict that if I am wrong (80% sure, in this case), then all creatures on the battlefield will be viable choices to attach the Destiny to (also 80% sure I am wrong about this). Edit: If I'm reading this correctly, my initial assumption is correct about Destiny. Comp Rules wrote: 303.4f If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a player’s control by any means other than by resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesn’t specify the object or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters the battlefield. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura’s enchant ability and any other applicable effects. Taking the Time to Actually Determine Possible Grip Changes Player 4's Confusion triggers associated with Serra Angel and Craw Wurm can each be redirected to: Palinchron, Crypt Ghast, Grizzly Bears Player 4's Confusion trigger associated with Sol Ring can be redirected to: Thran Dynamo, Mana Crypt, Sun Droplet Player 3's Confusion trigger associated with Crypt Ghast can be redirected to: Palinchron, Craw Wurm, Grizzly Bears, Serra Angel Player 3's Confusion triggers associated with Propaganda and Necropotence can each be redirected to: Grip of Chaos, Confusion in the Ranks, Angelic Destiny Player 2's Confusion triggers associated with Palinchron and Grizzly Bears can each be redirected to: Crypt Ghast, Craw Wurm, Serra Angel Player 2's Confusion trigger associated with Thran Dynamo can be redirected to: Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Sun Droplet Player 2's Confusion trigger associated with Angelic Destiny can be redirected to: Grip of Chaos, Confusion in the Ranks, Propaganda, Necropotence Player 1's Confusion triggers associated with Sun Droplet and Mana Crypt can each be redirected to: Sol Ring, Thran Dynamo Player 1's Confusion triggers associated with Grip of Chaos and Confusion in the Ranks can each be redirected to: Necropotence, Propaganda, Angelic Destiny Player 4's Sol Ring trigger is guaranteed to resolve, as well as at least one of his/her creature triggers. One of Player 3's enchantment triggers is guaranteed to resolve.

Author:	Tevish Szat [ Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How to Resolve Thieves Auction with Grip of Chaos and Confusion in the Ranks
Thank you! That gives me a great deal of insight into how to untangle this mess should I ever successfully create it. Post-it notes for the stack are going to be vital.

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