It is currently Sun Dec 01, 2024 5:55 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:07 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 04, 2015
Posts: 4649
Location: Alchemist's Refuge
Identity: Male
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him/his/his/himself
Tonight at FNM, to reduce the amount of life an opponent would gain from casting Fumigate, someone cast an Unlicensed Disintegration targeting the only artifact creature among their creatures (which was also the only artifact they controlled). An argument began about whether the person who cast the Disintegration would take 3 damage or not, and as the acting Floor Judge (appointed by the TO before FNM began) I was called over to give a verdict. I wasn't entirely sure what the proper outcome would be, but I ruled that the person would not take 3 damage since the instructions are followed in the order written and the artifact creature would no longer be under their control once the effect gets to the part looking for an artifact under their control.

I'm 77% sure I gave the correct ruling, but I'd like to know for sure. Thanks in advance.

The unconventional use was brought about due to the opponent who cast Fumigate not controlling any creatures at the time.

_________________
Former Rules Advisor (RA program ended 5-3-16)

Up High, Down Low, Whoops, Too Slow.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:27 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 09, 2013
Posts: 7454
Location: Mountain View
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him
You were correct. The effects occur in order, and destroying a creature immediately moves it into its owner's graveyard.

Comp Rules wrote:
701.7a To destroy a permanent, move it from the battlefield to its owner’s graveyard.


Unlicensed Disintegration has a Gatherer ruling for a somewhat similar situation.

Gatherer wrote:
9/20/2016 Whether or not you control an artifact is checked only as Unlicensed Disintegration resolves, after the creature is destroyed. For example, if you destroy a Fairgrounds Warden that exiled your artifact creature, Unlicensed Disintegration deals 3 damage to Fairgrounds Warden’s controller.

_________________
if someone said this about me i'd make it my signature


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:57 am 
Offline
YMtC Champ '14
YMTC Pro Tour Champion
User avatar

Joined: Jun 04, 2014
Posts: 15599
Location: Freedom
Preferred Pronoun Set: they
that seems like a bad use of the card though. it's for the first mode of ebony charm except you don't even get the life. did they have exactly lethal burn in hand? because otherwise that makes no sense.

:duel:

_________________
I tend to agree with Razor.

Mown wrote:
I'll never again complain about raz's criteria.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:22 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 25, 2013
Posts: 4316
Maybe they didn't have another artifact ready to enter the field, so it was a 4 point damage spell, assuming enough burn and an opponent at a low enough life total it might make a little more sense even if they still needed to topdeck something.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:56 pm 
Offline
YMtC Champ '14
YMTC Pro Tour Champion
User avatar

Joined: Jun 04, 2014
Posts: 15599
Location: Freedom
Preferred Pronoun Set: they
Maybe they didn't have another artifact ready to enter the field, so it was a 4 point damage spell, assuming enough burn and an opponent at a low enough life total it might make a little more sense even if they still needed to topdeck something.

but the 3 damage didn't happen, and if it did it would've happened to them, not their opponent.

:duel:

_________________
I tend to agree with Razor.

Mown wrote:
I'll never again complain about raz's criteria.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:42 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 04, 2015
Posts: 4649
Location: Alchemist's Refuge
Identity: Male
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him/his/his/himself
I honestly didn't pay a lot of attention to the boardstate. An argument was happening and I had to Judge based on the scenario described. I didn't look at either player's hand, I think I remember an Underhanded Designs being on the battlefield (or maybe it was the graveyard), and the argument was only about a specific situation which I addressed. When there's a question or issue, I scan the battlefield to see if anything else will impact what's going on, and since I don't clearly remember anything else of significance being on the battlefield then there must not have been anything of significance on the battlefield.

An example of something significant I would have noticed: if the player who Disintegrated their own artifact creature had had a Syndicate Trafficker on the battlefield, while I wouldn't have mentioned the better strategy of sacing the artifact creature to it to remove 2 life from being gained (that's coaching), I would have made a mental note of its existence on the battlefield. In order to be prepared to answer any questions asked about how indestructible creatures interact with Fumigate.

_________________
Former Rules Advisor (RA program ended 5-3-16)

Up High, Down Low, Whoops, Too Slow.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:41 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 08, 2017
Posts: 1
Searching google brought me here. I was in a situation that required me to use my Unlicensed disintegration in a similar way. Here's what happened. The opponent activated their Aetherworks Marvel on my turn, and they were able to freely cast Emrakul. I had the unlicensed disintegration in my hand, and an artifact creature (Scrapheap Scrounger, only artifact) on the table, along with a few other creatures. I knew if I didn't kill my artifact, another creature would die and I'd take 3 damage when my opponent took my next turn for me.

The same debate ensued when I killed my own artifact, glad to see that I argued my position correctly.

Sorry to necro a 2 month old thread, but seemed like this could be a more likely situation to be killing ones own creatures with the card.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group